Does the rent-to-value ratio matter right now? Jason Hartman discusses RV ratio and changes in mortgage rates. Mark Moss’s interview continues the discussion of bitcoin and cryptocurrency.


Jason Hartman  00:54
Welcome to Episode 1466 1466. We’ve got Part Two Two of our guests from yesterday Mark moss with us to finish out that round. But before we get to that, I want to remind you, what do I need to remind you of? Well, we have our 1031 tax deferred exchange webinar on Friday, and this weekend and guess what I’m doing this weekend, by the way. I know nobody does anything on the weekends anymore. The days are all becoming the same as we enter they 275 of quarantine. Yeah, just getting on the 275. But it feels like that sometimes, doesn’t it? It certainly does. It certainly does. You know, it’s um, it’s really interesting how the areas that are opening back up are experiencing such uneven results in terms of infections and cases and so forth. And when you look around In the world to the same with the very uneven reactions to the virus, right, you know, Brazil, very different than South Korea or Singapore or, you know, China and then also very different than Sweden. And these things are not I don’t know, there’s not a lot of consistency in the the results is there. You’ll have some places that are sort of open liberally Okay, and they’re not taking many precautions, and they’re not getting very many infections but others like Brazil that sort of, you know, gave Coronavirus the finger that was silly. Now they’re really paying for it. So it why this is just very uneven. One reason I am sure is density of population density in a given area so you can’t even look country by country you got to look, city by city are really micro market micro neighborhood just like real estate. All real estate is local. And all infections are local. Right? So same rule applies there. It’s, it’s, it’s really fascinating to watch all this stuff. And, of course, at the same time, it’s tragic. But we’re gonna see, I think it’ll be interesting to see how history informs us more about what’s going on. Now, you know, it’s harder to see something when you’re in the middle of it, right? And the same is true with trying to time the market, isn’t it? So if you’re trying to time the real estate market is it’s a fool’s errand. Okay. Good luck with that one. And good luck with that, you know, you’re probably going to be wrong. And if you are right, you’re only going to be right, a small part of the time. And if you are right, you’re going to miss the opportunity that you would have had to earn that return earlier, right. If you didn’t invest, or you might miss the opportunity on the flip side. It’s just very hard to do. So. So just the prudent thing is to just do things that make good sense where the numbers make sense when you follow commandment number five, Thou shalt not gamble. We have prudent conservative investor, you know, follow my strategy and you’ll be okay. It’s hard to go wrong following my 10 commandments, all 22 of them. Yes, there are 22 of the 10 commandments. Now. You know what commandment number 22 is, by the way, right? Thou shalt invest in low density environments. Yes, we were doing that anyway for the past 16 years, but I never had a commandment about it. So hey, I made one just recently, a couple months ago. Okay, so I gotta tell you something. To find out if a property makes sense the day you buy it, which is part of commandment number five that I was just talking about. We would normally say that the first metric, the first metric is that rule of thumb. It doesn’t tell you everything, but it tells you something. It’s simple metric. It’s the really easy one, even even a democrat could figure it out. And that is the RV ratio, rent to value ratio. Yes. Even the democrats could figure that one out. I know. There you go. All right. Hey, I’m just kidding. There’s a lot of smart Democrats. But yeah, whatever. So when you get when you have the RV ratio, right. I originally started talking about this back in 2003. But I didn’t really get into the full time investment business until 2004 when I was selling my traditional real estate company to Coldwell Banker at that time, and that deal took about a year to negotiate. And I started teaching people that you’ve got to evaluate these markets, you got to buy investments that make sense from day one. And I was you know, I when I was first doing this, I was doing it at my office meetings for my traditional real estate companies. I’d like 65 employees, right or well, employees and contractors, I should say, but depends how you look at them. The shorthand staff, or how’s that my staff consisted of 65 people when I sold that company took about a year to do the deal. But before I got into the investment business as a full time occupation, like I’m in now, I started teaching people about the RV ratio in 2003. And that was the rent to value ratio. Now, there were various other ways to calculate the RV ratio. Mine was just the simple way it was the look at the price you pay for the property and look at the rental income and do that ratio. And back then I said that point 5% was too low. Yeah, that would be dumb. You shouldn’t buy that property. If it was point five, way too low. And that was that was sort of the typical thing. And in California, you get a point five RV ratio. So a $600,000 property might rent for 3000 a month. Probably it would even rent for a little less, maybe 25 to 2800 a month. And by the way, check those ratios now. They’re still pretty close 17 years later. Isn’t that interesting? Because the world operates on ratios. Okay? numbers just don’t give you enough information. What gives you good information is a ratio. Why is a ratio so important? Because a ratio just intrinsically asks the Jason Hartman question compared to what? Right compared to what, and that’s pretty much everything in life is compared to what question? We all make choices on a compared to what basis Oh, hey, speaking of compared to why I was going to tell you what I’m doing this weekend. Well, I’m doing a few things. But one of the things I was going to tell you that’s interesting about the current world in which we live, is I’ve been looking at new cards from my computer screen, haven’t gone to look at any in a while. In some thinking about getting a new car and you know, I hardly ever Drive at all I’ve been thinking about getting a car subscription, a cas, like SAS, you know, SAS is capital S small a small a capital S Software as a Service, right? And that’s the way we mostly use software nowadays in the cloud software as a service SaaS or CAS is car as a service. I might have made that up. I’m not sure I’ve heard or read that anywhere but anyway, subscription cars right you can do this a lot of the auto manufacturers Porsche Volvo Mercedes, you know, I’m sure some cheaper cars to have have a cast program but they don’t seem like a really bad Good deal. It just seems like kind of a warmed over Carly’s so I don’t know. I’ll continue to investigate. But anyway, I’ve been looking at Consumer Reports great company, by the way, you know me Listen. I am a consumer advocate. I love consumer advocacy. When I was a kid I used to watch a show by a guy named David Horowitz. David Horowitz was my first introduction as a as a kid out, you know, I don’t know when did I discover him? Maybe when I was eight years old. He said the show called fight back, fight back. David Horowitz right. And he would go in expose all these scam artists and these crooks and these ripoff people. And you know, he was on the news on I think CHANNEL SEVEN ABC in Los Angeles, California where I grew up. He was great. I loved watching David Horowitz because I felt like he was like, you know, he was a fighter for the people a fighter for the underdog. And I just loved it. And, you know, that’s shaped a lot of my career today. You know, I’m a consumer advocate. I go and take these crooks to task and, you know, I’ll get into litigation with them. And, you know, a lot of litigation doesn’t make much economic sense, but you know, I feel it’s kind of a duty, you know, you got to do it to do the right thing because remember, when you don’t stand up to a person who rips you off if someone cheats you in a deal and they get away with And you let them get away with it. You know, most people just say, yeah, you know, it’s not worth it. I’m not gonna bother. I got to preserve my peace of mind. Well, I say Bs, that’s bogus, if you have resources, okay? Now, I’m not saying the poor immigrant with no money and no resources and no connections, needs to do this stuff. But someone who has resources has an obligation to their fellow man to fix the problems of society, to write their congressperson to write to their senator to stand up to the the con artists, the thief, the bully, okay, they have a duty to do that. And you know, most of you listening Frankly, I know most of you and you have resources, okay, because I know my audience. So, you know, don’t be the person who says, Don’t bother, you know, I get the idea. Look, folks, we’ve all heard the saying you got to pick your battles. That’s true. You You have to pick your battles. But you should pick your battles a little more. Well, how do I say this? If you have resources, if you have some wealth, if you have some resources, knowledge, connections, whatever resources you have, I say that you should pick your battles less intelligently. Have you like that one less intelligent Wait, if you don’t have resources, you have to conserve what little resources you have. Right? So you really do have to pick your battles, and you have to try to avoid all battles, right. But if you have resources, you owe it to the greater good to use those resources to make sure that that bully con artist thief scumbag does not take advantage of the next person who comes along because believe me, if you let them get away with it, what are they going to do the next time they’re going to take advantage of the next person And they probably been doing it for years because they’re scum. Okay, now, hey, hopefully there’s a special place in hell for these people. But you got to use your resources to do something for the greater good. This is basically the definition of charity work of volunteerism. So you know, if you got to donate some money to go and fight a battle, to save the next 25 people that are going to come along, or the next thousand people that are going to get ripped off by this cookie, run into an encounter in your life, then do it. You know, you know, what are we here for people? What are we here for? If we have resources, if we’re successful, if we have brains, if we have money, we got to do something for the greater good. That’s the point of life. I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I woke and saw that life was duty. I acted and behold, duty was joy. Now Enough of my tangent because that’s, I don’t know where we got off on that, that was completely different than what I started with. Here’s what I started with. commandment number five. Okay, so Thou shalt not gamble. Now I want to revise the rent to value ratio. So back in 2003, I told everybody 1% rent to value ratio was ideal. Point 7% was good enough if if everything else was really good, and the property was good, and you know, all the other path of progress and everything looks good, right? point seven was, you know, good enough to consider the deal. And point five No way. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t buy that property. It doesn’t make sense. You’re a gambler. If you buy that because most people are buying it on speculation, hoping that something great will happen called appreciation. Then when it doesn’t come, they’re devastated. They’ve lost their money. But here’s the thing. Back in 2003. Now let me look at the chart I’m pulling up here, folks in 2003. Let’s look at the mortgage rates in 2003. Ah, here they are, here they are. Okay. So if you would have taken out a mortgage now these are owner occupied rates. So understand that investor rates are not widely charted very well, okay. And they’re a little higher, maybe quarter point higher. But in the middle of 2003, you would have paid right around 5.6 to 6.25% on a mortgage rate. Okay. Now, you would pay today you would pay 3.31 In fact, one of our listeners, Charles Yeah, Charles, I’m talking to you. You just got this killer refi you ready for this folks, you’re probably not going to Get this deal so I’m gonna I’m gonna bum you out a little bit your can be a little envious of Charles. Many of you have met Charles he’s been Do you know profits in Paradise and meet the masters or events or conferences. And he got it’s unbelievable 2.99% 2.99% on his own home with he and his wife and kids 30 year fixed rate. Wow, I’m jealous, Charles. Congratulations High Five virtual High Five you scored. But right now the Publish rate is 3.31%. So the interest rate is half of what it was when I originally quoted those rental value ratios. So now look, the rent to value ratio just ain’t that meaningful, like it used to be. It’s still a good ratio. But the question is, you got to apply some new numbers to it. Because that you know, you You can have a lower rent to value ratio today, because your debt is so cheap, it’s half price. Your dad is half price. Well, almost it’s not quite half price. Okay. But it’s almost half price of what it was when yours truly originally started talking about those those rent to value ratios 17 years ago, and the rent to value ratio just like the crap rate. I mean, the cap rate does not take into account the cost of the debt. And the debt is so cheap, you’re literally getting paid to borrow. So don’t freak out about rent to value ratios anymore. You can be much more lacs about them than you used to be. If you’re expecting the 1% rule, yeah, you might get it in some lower end, you know, C class type properties, maybe even a little better if you get lucky, but you don’t need it. It doesn’t need to be that good anymore. The investment can still be awesome because the mortgage is so cheap. That The RV ratio the rent to value ratio has to be revised. Okay. It has to be, to some extent ignored. You look at the Performa and you can still see that your cash on you don’t even need to look at a performing you can just do the math yourself. You can just calculate your cash on cash return. Go to Jason watch the free video on the front page of Jason Hartman calm and you can learn more about that. But yeah, it’s it’s phenomenal. Okay, so rent to value ratio. Salpa window, okay, it it just isn’t the same world. Okay, so it’s not as important ain’t what it used to be. Okay. It ain’t what it used to be. All right. So the 1031 tax deferred exchange webinar. Let me give you the link for that. Then let’s get to our guest. It’s bi slash 1031 profit, all lowercase bi You know, it’s a bit Length of shortened link, slash 1031. That’s the IRS code 1031 for 1031 exchange, profit 1031 profit, bi slash 1031 profit if you forget that it’s in the show notes at Jason And we will see you there Friday and on the weekend for that webinar, and you can learn about income property being the most tax favored asset class in America. Here is part two of Mark moss. He talked to us a little bit about cryptocurrencies, if you will, I haven’t talked about that much on the show lately. And I used to talk about it a lot. You know, and this is something that I say to my listeners, Mark, I would love to be wrong about this. You know, I’m not a Bitcoin bull. But I’d love to be wrong. I really would. I’d love nothing more than to see a decentralized like democratize currency, I just think the Fed and the government, they’re just too powerful, you know, and other central banks and I kind of view it as that, like, the Chief Product of any government is literally their currency. Like the dollar is the product they produce, right. Tesla makes cars, you know, other companies make widgets. Well, governments make currency. Right. That’s their product.

Mark Moss 19:22
So a couple of couple things I’d say about that. One, you. You mentioned earlier that Fiat means it’s like government mandated. Right, right. Well, that means it’s fake money. And yeah, and what and the thing is, is that people think that the government has the military and they’re gonna force people to use the dollar, but that’s not how it works. There has to be trust without trust, nobody will use it. That’s why in Venezuela right now it’s lined with with paper dollars and nobody will even bother to pick them up. Right? Nobody cares. Doesn’t matter how much the government mandates you to use it. If nobody wants it, nobody wants it. And that’s just the end of the story. Zimbabwe. We can talk about this all day. Zimbabwe is hot. hundred trillion dollar bank notes. So when there’s no trust, no one’s going to use it. I don’t care how big the military is. So that being said, the government has a monopoly on it because they did this slide, tricky thing where all dollars were backed by gold in 1971. They removed that. But the dollar didn’t really change. And most people don’t really even understand what happened there. And that’s all fine and good, as long as things continue to work as they are, but at some point that may fail. But what I would also do is I would roll things back a little bit, and I would say, like, if you looked at, you know, maybe in the 14 1500s, really like the Catholic Church and the government were like, together as one, right, and the people weren’t allowed to read the Bible. And then we came, we got the printing press, and the Bibles were mass produced, and eventually the information will got spread. So the information the point that I want to make is information was centralized. Mm hmm. And you had to go to the church, you got to go to the Catholic Church to get the information and they told you what they wanted you to know. It wasn’t available for you to on your own. the printing press came out at decentralize the information attached to the Bible. And the Catholic Church broke the last the stranglehold. And eventually we got the separation of church and state. Mm hmm.

Jason Hartman  21:11
Yeah. Things become democratized.

Mark Moss 21:14
Guys Today, as you’re saying that there’s a monopoly centralization of money of value. And the government holds a monopoly on that, as you’re saying, and you’re and you’re accurate in saying that, but things can become decentralized. And so eventually, I believe we’re on a very short path to seeing a separation of money and state, and I believe we need to go and so really, if you look at what did you have a question about that?

Jason Hartman  21:40
Well, yeah, look at every law and every government mandate comes down to being at the wrong end of the point of a gun. You know, that’s the bottom line. You know, if if you don’t pay your taxes First, you’ll get some letters. Then you know, you’ll get some phone calls. Then you’ll get you know, police battering down your door and coming in and putting your in a cage, right? So that’s the result of any law. Right? So, you know, I look at it like, you know, cocaine, right? It’s an illegal drug, but it has a market and a value and people do trade in it as they trade and other illegal substances, but not many, you know, it’s never gonna be a big thing. It’s never gonna compete with the dollar because it’s illegal.

Mark Moss 22:22
You haven’t seen the cartels and the hundred trillion dollars.

Jason Hartman  22:26
They got a lot, but compared to the GDP of the US economy, it’s a drop in the bucket. Right. But yeah, it’s a lot for Pablo Escobar, right? Or whatever. Right?

Mark Moss 22:37
Well, what I’d say to that a couple things. I’ll say to that first is that one, it doesn’t have to be necessarily. It depends on what you consider a success. And I guess it depends on what we’re trying to talk about here. Meaning, first of all, like the gold market is $10 trillion. Mm hmm. And not everybody uses gold. Most right, you know, an angle. Good point. But yet it’s $10 trillion. The offshore bank banking sector is about $40 trillion. Not everybody has offshore bank accounts right there at the moment. That’s not even the standard but yet it’s $50 trillion. So good Bitcoin capture a little bit of that offshore banking. Could it capture a little bit of the gold market? If so, it could easily get to 510 trillion dollars which puts it at a couple hundred thousand dollars per Bitcoin?

Jason Hartman  23:18
And that’s that’s an interesting point. Yeah, that’s an interesting point. Do you know the size that like the market cap of Bitcoin now that’s available bitcoins because there’s only like 2 million left or something, right? Um,

Mark Moss  23:29
the market cap as of today is changes radically is 100 160 $3 billion.

Jason Hartman  23:37
Okay, so it’s tiny.

Mark Moss  23:40
So I have a video on my channel, how Bitcoin gets to $100,000 and basically $100,000 per coin, and it’s simple, like, all I have to do is capture two or 3% of the gold market, two or 3% of the offshore banking sector, and like it can be there and like offshore banking is not mainstream. Mm hmm. Yeah. So it depends like are we talking about like, Will it go from, you know, $10,000 to $100,000? Or will it become the reserve currency of the world? Those are different conversations, of course, I believe so as an investor, I believe it’s the single best investment we have today, I think there’s a very probable chance. So we think about things in probabilities, I think there’s a very probable chance we could see it get to $100,000 which is from 10,000 to 100,000 is an amazing game. Or it could lose 100 it could lose 100% so you could lose 100% or you have upside of 1,000% those are odds I life

Jason Hartman  24:32
in that equation is a pretty good equation. You’re right. And by the way, we should tell the audience because they don’t know you yet. You know, you’re a real estate guy like you love real estate investing. And you talk about it a lot. And you know, this is something you do with a small portion of your portfolio for that possible. Home Run swing, right.

Mark Moss 24:51
Yeah, I mean, I also I also invest into gold and also invest into stocks and all that. So but I all of that is put together into like I said, my growth allocation Then when I take profits from there, I take those profits and I put them over into cash flowing into real estate. Mm hmm. So there’s a quote that I can’t remember who said it, and I have somebody, I think it was fa hyack was one of the great Austrian economics. Oh, yeah. And he said that there shall never be a sound money again, until it is taken from the hands of the government. But it can’t be done by force, but rather through a sly roundabout way that they don’t know until it’s too late, which is basically interestingly, what they’ve been doing to us for years through inflation, the sly roundabout way. Exactly are well, yeah, so Bitcoin fits that narrative perfectly, because it’s this slight roundabout way. If the if the government and the Fed whoever you want to say would have seen what was going on 10 years ago, they would have stopped it. At this point is too big, it’s too prevalent. So I’m not saying that all the governments of the world can’t come together and make it illegal and they’ll kill you if they catch you with it. And that would definitely limit the ability. I’m not saying that won’t happen, there’s that there’s a chance that could happen. There is a chance. But there’s also a chance that doesn’t happen, right? And when you look at it, so like representative Brad Sherman from California, another great California guy, he spoke to the Senate committee and said, We need to outlaw cryptocurrency, because it undermines our monopoly on money. And what it does as the US is it takes away our ability to slap sanctions on countries like Iran. Mm hmm. That’s what he said. But I was sitting there listening going, Oh, really? Well, then I think we should use it. Right. And so all of a sudden, now, the fact that the US would want to make it illegal makes other countries want to adopt it and what it creates game theory. Mm hmm. And so now the US, I’m not saying the US makes it illegal, and then all of a sudden, they go lives in that free part of the world. So that’s one that’s one thing. The other thing that I would say is that we know that that policy as set by lobby right now people lobby the government and they get their way with the government. Right, right. And I would say that I don’t know who’s bigger, but probably the two biggest lobby are pharma and finance. So finance is definitely one of the biggest lobby arms in there. And we know that Goldman Sachs fidelity, TD Ameritrade nysc backed all these companies have spent collectively billions of dollars to start building out Bitcoin products. And so they’re not gonna be happy to see the government change policy and make that illegal after they’ve already spent billions of dollars to bring those products and I would bet they’re going to spend a lot of money lobbying to keep that active so they can make that money. Mm hmm.

Jason Hartman  27:42
How do you recommend buying Bitcoin? How do I recommend buying it? Yeah, I mean, on on like the common exchanges or do you know, do you recommend doing it some other way or, I mean, the

Mark Moss 27:52
easiest way, maybe not the most ideal way, but the easiest way is go to Coinbase comm and set up an account I mean, They’re they’re a US based company, fully legit, fully transparent. You link up your account and you just click Buy. And it just buys jack Dorsey from Twitter as a company called square, and there’s a company and they have what’s called the cash app. And then you can just download this cash app on your phone. And it’s kind of like a banking app. And I can request money, send money, kind of like a Venmo kind of type deal. And I buy bitcoin right into cash app.

Jason Hartman  28:26
Okay, got it. Got it. So he’s, he’s selling it to that’s interesting. And tell us about the having that just happened.

Mark Moss 28:33
So let’s say about the halving, but I want to tell you this back to Well, let’s talk about to happen first. So basically what happened and this is a very interesting thing, and actually I have a video dropping on my YouTube channel here in one minute, talking about the halving, so nobody wants to know more, they go watch it on the channel, but basically what happens is it’s very interesting. So the Bitcoin Bitcoin was created as a direct response to the 2008 great financial crash So in the very first line of code, the programmer Satoshi Nakamoto, whoever it is, but the programmer wrote a line in the code, and he’s and he quoted the headline of a newspaper article, the Chancellor is on the brink of a second bailout. And it was in response to this endless money printing that Bitcoin was created in Bitcoin was created to be deflationary. So we talk about money and there’s just no end to how much they make. And of course, the more they make, the less it’s worth the dollars lost 90% of its purchasing power over the last hundred years. Well, Bitcoin was created as a response to that and it’s made deflationary, it has a hard cap never be more than 21 million bitcoins ever. And what happens is, over time they’re released. So there’s a new block you’ve heard blockchain. So as the transactions gets processed, it’s block by block by block and it gets added every 10 minutes, a new block, and every 10 minutes a new block, releases bitcoins into the system. And if you have if you buy a company pewter and you hook into the network which is permission list everybody’s able to do this anyone can hook a computer in and start helping the network with security. If you participate in that when coins are released, you get a share of that depending on how much share you’re putting in on work. Now, in the beginning it was 50 coins 50 Bitcoin every, every block every 10 minutes. But what happens is that that schedule goes down every four years, it gets cut in half, so then it was 25 bitcoins every 10 minutes. Right now we’ve been 12.5 Bitcoin every 10 minutes. And as of as of yesterday, it became 6.25 Bitcoin every 10 minutes. And so back to what I said about supply and demand, right things are super simple. Right now as of yet before yesterday, we were creating 1800 new Bitcoin were created every single day 1800 bitcoins about today’s price, roughly $16 million Right. So the market, the demand and the supply, the supply is 1800 new Bitcoin every day, the demand is absorbing that and the price is stable with that supply and demand. If the demand stays the same, but you cut the supply in half, what happens? The price should go up right? Now, so so that’s the big deal with the having. So we’re on this supply schedule this fixed supply schedule every four years, the the amount, the inflation, I even call it the inflation of Bitcoin gets cut in half every four years. And basically all the way we have about 120 more years until it runs out and we max out the 21 million Bitcoins. There’s no more.

Jason Hartman  31:38
So Mark, I know, I know, we got to wrap it up here. But this is fascinating. And you know, one more thing I hear from the skeptics is they’ll say, Well, okay, Bitcoin is limited. You’ve got like 21 million allowed or something like that. Right. But the market for cryptocurrency in general is totally unlimited. I mean, you’ve got all these others out there? Right a theory M and a zillion others. What do you say to that? Like, is it is it just a, you know, a cryptocurrency thing or is it all about Bitcoin?

Mark Moss 32:14
And in my mind, it’s all about Bitcoin and what I would say to that is, you have one Mona Lisa, that’s worth a lot of money. You have two paintings right behind you. Do those two paintings diminish the Mona Lisa?

Jason Hartman  32:26
Oh, no, they don’t.

Mark Moss  32:27
They don’t. There’s there’s thousands of paintings. There’s millions of paintings in the world. Sure those millions of paintings diminish the value of the Mona Lisa. Yeah, no, they don’t. And the reason why is because Mona Lisa has characteristics that are unique to the Mona Lisa. And Bitcoin has characteristics that are unique to Bitcoin that no one else has no one else can do. No one else no other coin no other cryptocurrency could ever replicate or duplicate. Well, I don’t want to say ever but have not so far been able and I would, I would almost say never, probably never could ever duplicate what Bitcoin has. And so what what is Bitcoin has It has immutability, it has scarcity, and it has censorship resistant. And this is the big thing, right? So, you’ve seen and why Mr. Republic you’ve seen in Cyprus in 2015. Australia has bail in laws, the government goes broke, they just take your money they seize go, the US sees gold in 1933. Right. So the government just takes your money when they want it. Bitcoin is censorship resistant, nobody can seize it, steal it, nobody can manipulate it, prevent it. We saw like in Wikileaks, we saw Julian Assange was holed up and people were sending him money. And then the government said, Nope, you can’t send him money anymore. So people started sending them Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is freedom. Bitcoin is sovereignty. If I hold Bitcoin, nobody can steal it, nobody can seize it. Nobody can manipulate it, nobody can inflate it away, like those dollars in your bank account, the government’s inflated away or they could take them out of your bank if they wanted to get away right, but nobody can seize it. And in addition, if I want to pay you for something with dollars through PayPal Venmo wire transfer, there’s a 50 cent In line that could stop that transaction. But But if but Bitcoin is peer to peer, if I want to pay you, nobody can stop it, block it or prevent it. It’s freedom. It’s, it’s its sovereignty, and that, and I believe that freedom and sovereignty will always win.

Jason Hartman  34:14
Yeah. And that’s a really good libertarian view. I like it. I guess the only way they could stop it is they could somehow block the packets on the internet, like, you know, they can block voice packets, right? Because they’re different than other bits and bytes. You know, that’s,

Mark Moss  34:32
theoretically but technically No, right? So people are already doing Bitcoin transactions over ham radios. They’re doing them through, there’s a new thing called out there’s a new thing called mesh networks. So it’s getting really, really big where it’s like, it’s there’s a new there’s a new sector called dissident tech. And so as governments become more tyrannical, we’re seeing this, for example, that we see it in New York as well, but there’s called mesh networks and basically their little mini, you know, that is like, yeah, they They use multiple radio waves to use Bluetooth your Wi Fi and the cellular. Yeah, right exactly. So they’re they’re transferring Bitcoin on mesh networks and transferring Bitcoin on ham radios. And so they have their satellites up so their satellites up if the ISP takes internet down you have the entity of the satellites up. So you’re right I mean, there’s gonna be this there could be this cat and mouse, there’s all these what ifs, right and they’re all and we and we have to recognize those we don’t want to ignore them, but we want to assign them probabilities is that probable that the people and I hear it all the time on my channel? What about the whole internet goes down? And I’m like, if you think there’s a world with no internet like we have we have bigger problems. So yeah, probable, I guess but I give it a such a small percentage of profit right? So you have all these things and I do I will give you though that money is money is power and the fed the central bank’s wherever you want to call it, control the world with the money They do not want to lose control of that. And they will throw every tool in their arsenal at this. Right. And so it’s gonna be a battle. And I’ll give you that.

Jason Hartman  36:08
Yeah. And I think they’ll they’ll come along with their own cryptocurrency their own digital dollar, you know, at some point, that’s that’s going to happen because but the problem is when that happens there will be zero financial privacy. I mean, they will know our every move. I mean, one of the, you know, ultimate forms of freedom is the ability to trade without Big Brother watching you, you know, to buy what you want. Can you imagine, in a really ugly, dystopian 1984 ish world where, you know, every time you make a purchase on the internet or something, the government questions well, what was that for? It’s like posting something on Facebook that they consider questionable. And they’ll they’ll hide it or ghost it or you know, or they don’t agree with the politics. I mean, it’s absolutely scary. Yeah,

Mark Moss 36:51
it’s even it’s even worse. So like those government cryptocurrencies that it’s programmable money, I can program it. So for example, if you’re on if you’re receiving government is systems for example, when they transfer that money they can program they can program that money where you can only spend it on these certain things right? Be on these things. If you don’t, if you don’t spend it within a certain time, it automatically comes back to them. So like it can be programmed any way they want before they even give it to you.

Jason Hartman  37:16
Yeah, yeah. And and that will create all sorts of black markets.

Mark Moss  37:20
But what I like what I would just say is, the overarching theme is what I started with is it always has to come down to trust and so no government force and they threaten you with a barrel of a gun. I understand that. But no amount of force can make you use something when humans don’t want to trade for it. So when in Venezuela, they go to buy that bread with those dollars and they say I don’t want those dollars, but I will take water. I’ll take batteries. Yeah, right fruit, right. I don’t want those Venezuelan dollars. And so at the end of the day, there’s always going to be free will there’s always going to be free trade and no amount of force can affect that. I don’t think Yeah,

Jason Hartman  37:57
yeah. Well, very good. Because you know, I remember When I was in Romania, our guide was a high level person under the, you know, Ceausescu communist regime, right. And she was a media reporter. And so she got to live a much nicer life than other people did. But of course, she had to toe that state line, which was completely bogus. And she talked about how they would ration everything. And maybe one or two times a year or the country would get you ready for this chocolate. And the whole country would be like, in heaven, they’d be stoned on chocolate because they got chocolate, right? And, you know, she said that they would dole out shoes, there would be a certain time when the government would announce that, hey, we’ve got shoes and you can go get shoes based on you know, whatever your name is, or I don’t know, I don’t know how they did it. But people would wait in line to get a pair of shoes mark for you know, 2436 hours and they’d get to the they get their place and they go into that place to get their free communist shoes and they wouldn’t have to sighs and I said, Well, what did you do? Well, we had to develop our own market and trade them behind the scenes because we had to get what fit properly. Right? And that’s exactly what you’re saying people. People always develop their own gray or black markets for everything. So that’s true. Capitalism is a very natural thing, isn’t it?

Mark Moss 39:17
Is it is Yeah,

Jason Hartman  39:18
yeah, it’s good. Hey, give out your website. It’s been great talking to you. give out your website, tell people where they can find out more.

Mark Moss 39:25
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I put out content a couple times a week on YouTube, just just search Mark moss, you’ll find it there. Like I said, I just dropped a video as it released right now on this whole Bitcoin having. So if you want to know more about that, I have a whole video about that. I talked about all these different topics that we’ve kind of covered on this show. So if you like any of those topics, making money, investing money, and having success in life, then check out the channel. The best place, places me.

Jason Hartman  39:48
We love it. Hey, Mark, thanks a lot for joining us. Yep. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe. so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice or advice in any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.