In this Creating Wealth podcast episode, Jason Hartman engages with Tempo Funding Managing Director Mike Zlotnik. He talks about the factors that will give rise to the talking of the economy. They also discuss the rewards that institutional investors get and why investors must prepare for the worst-case scenario.

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Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the company LEED solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:04
I want to take just a moment to tell you about renter’s warehouse and award winning property management company that services over 13,000 investors with over 18,000 properties nationwide. They are the only residential property manager rated by Morningstar. Their centralized model with local staff provide trustworthy support across multiple markets. These experts track all aspects of your property and never try to profit from maintenance repairs. Plus you’ll enjoy flat rate pricing and warrantied tenants up to 18 months. Check this out for a free three month property management trial. exclusive to Jason Hartman listeners, visit renters slash Jason again that’s renters warehouse comm slash Jason. Welcome to the creating wealth show. This is your host Jason Hartman with Episode Number 830 7837 thank you so much for joining me today. We always appreciate you tuning in three times a week, every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Friday is kind of a special day flashback Friday. And then of course, you know that every 10th episode, we go off topic and we talk about something of general interest, sometimes that lands on a flashback Friday, and we repeat one of our 10th show episodes, but mostly it doesn’t. I guess we would need a mathematician to kind of figure out how that works. It’s, it’s almost like an algorithm, right? It happens a few times a year. Speaking of which, Today we’ve got one of the brightest mathematical minds I know with us today and he is our venture Alliance member and that is Mr. Mike Slotnick, who is a hard money lender. He is founder of tempo funding. Mike, welcome. How you doing?

Mike Zlotnik 2:49
Jason? Thank you for having me.

Jason Hartman 2:52
It’s good to have you here. You’re coming to us from the Big Apple. You’re actually outside of the Big Apple. Well, I don’t know is Brooklyn, the Big Apple. Is that considered New York City. Do you call it New York City?

Mike Zlotnik 3:04
Absolutely. Brooklyn is a part of New York City. And did you know that there are more people who live in Brooklyn in Manhattan? I did not know

Jason Hartman 3:10
that. I guess. That’s because Manhattan’s more business and office than residential right?

Mike Zlotnik 3:16
That’s right. But But New York City is composed the five boroughs. The mainland Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan and Bronx. That’s the Big Apple.

Jason Hartman 3:25
See, folks, we’re getting a geography lesson here today. This is good. I want to ask you about the economy a little bit and you know that sitting in your chair, and doing what you do all day, financing real estate deals, you’ve got a unique perspective. I would just love for you to share a little bit bit of that with your listeners. today. We will be playing a clip from a live event that I did, time permitting, if not, we’ll play it next week. Let’s just dive in a little bit and talk about you know, what you see going on in the marketplace you talk to me a lot about cap rate compression, as you call it, or yield compression. And I’d like to, you know, give our listeners a little insight a little definition on what that means first and insight into what’s happening and why it’s happening and, and some thoughts and predictions for the future of interest rates, inflation, etc. So, Mike, tell our listeners what you mean about yield compression and cap rate compression?

Mike Zlotnik 4:23
Sure, Jason, you compression is simply a reduction of the yield that investors receive on the investment for the same level of risk that they take. So you invest your capital and before used to make 10% now you make 9%. And the day after tomorrow, you’re gonna make 8%. It’s an it’s an event that happens when there’s a lot of capital chasing the same deal flow, and the capital is willing to take less of a return because it’s more capital and there’s less supply or yield, right?

Jason Hartman 4:56
So it’s, it’s simply the dis the supply demand curve. that dictates or causes yield compression or yield expansion. It’s similar to inflation because the way you said that Mike was interesting, it was almost really sort of that classic reason that inflation occurs, right? You have a increasing supply of dollars, or whatever fiat currency chasing a limited supply of assets. So this is what happens in the investing world. There’s a ton of capital out there chasing deals, whether they be the physical assets wanting to buy a property. And certainly we’re seeing that. I mean, in my career of dealing with 100% investors, starting in 2004, this is now my 13th year of doing this and of course, I’ve been in the real estate business longer, but just on the investor only side for the past 13 plus years. This is one of the lowest inventory times I have ever seen. inventory is very scarce because You have huge amounts of capital chasing in a limited supply of assets. So of course on our side, on the physical asset side, the actual property ownership side, you see the yields compressing, right, you see lower cash on cash returns lower cap rates, lower overall return on investment. But I tell you, it’s like I said to one of our investors who actually was on the podcast A few years ago, that’s Drew, we just traded voxer messages on this the other day, he said, I can’t find any good deals, I’ve got capital, I want to invest and I want to buy more properties. And you know, just none of these deals look that great and I’m like, Drew, you know, just wait a few years and those deals are gonna look awesome. It always happens that way. You know, we always have to the psychology always lags the market, doesn’t it? in it. Do you find that true with with your investors with yours, they’re not buying the hard money or they’re not buying the hard asset, the property, they’re just putting money into financing a deal for somebody else loaning the money, right?

Mike Zlotnik 7:07
Well, that’s right. But it’s very similar to what you mentioned. It is capital chasing deals. In our case when we make our hard money loan, it’s still a property that secures the loan. And as there are a number of properties out there on the market, going down as the reduction of inventory, the capital available to finance these properties, they feel abundant in the consequences that the rates borrowers pay on these hard money loans are coming down. That’s the same concept as people are buying properties. The owners of the property seeing yield compression the return for cash on cash returns is compressing cap rate in the lending space exactly the same effect they can place. The lenders are receiving lower rate of return on their capital. It’s the same concept Both parties are sort of suffering.

Jason Hartman 8:02
So why is this happened, though? I mean, is there suddenly more capital than there was three years ago?

Mike Zlotnik 8:09
I mean, what happened? I think both the deal flow was much more abundant after the crash of 2008 2009. In this the deal, flow was abundant. The capital was scarce, everybody was scared to put the money in the market, both in equity deals or dead deals. And over the years, as economy recovered, more and more people start looking for deals. And the low hanging fruit has been picked. The deal flow has sort of slowed down. The short sales slowdown, the Oreos property inventories reduced. So the inventory side there are fewer deals and they’re harder to find deals. And then on the lending side, there’s been major inflow of capital in the Wall Street, sort of entering the industry in the form of hedge fund cow Providing liquidity to a lot of bigger, hard money, originators, and they’re coming in, in droves offering a cheaper and cheaper capital just to get the business. So it’s a little bit of a dangerous model when the capital is chasing deals. But it’s happening in large institutional capital has a problem of utilization. They want to put a lot of money to work and they want to do it fast. And when they do that, they care less about quality, they care about volume. And that’s unfortunate. I’m so glad you mentioned that because

Jason Hartman 9:36
we’ve talked about this on the show over the years of how instant large amounts of institutional capital flowing into the real estate market or flowing in any asset class for that matter, will accept really low, meager returns and that’s always blowing my mind because I always thought, you know, the more money I have, the better deals should get. But that’s actually counterintuitive. That’s actually not necessarily true. In fact, I’d say, arguably, maybe most of the time, it’s the opposite. Because when they have so much capital to deploy, you know, the the old saying is what gets, what gets rewarded gets repeated, right? They get rewarded for deploying capital for investing that money. And if some fund manager has $200 million sitting on the sidelines, and it’s not invested, they’re in trouble, right? It’s kind of like it’s kind of like, you know, backwards thinking, in a way, it’s sort of the way government works, right? every year, every every friend of mine, I know or every person I’ve ever talked to that is a government contractor, whether they sell computers or whatever, to the government, right? every fall, when you know, these agencies need to spend money because if they don’t spend all their budget, then they can’t ask for an increase or They won’t even get the same budget, their budget will be reduced the following year. So they just spend wildly and stupidly to in essence deploy capital. And that sort of the same thing happens with these big institutional investors, which is why listeners the lesson, what’s the lesson here? Right? The lesson is, if you are investing with one of these institutional investors, and you’re the little pawn putting your life savings, your retirement money in with them, look at how how they’re doing it right there. They’re not really combing through deals. I mean, when we’ve had, you know, when we haven’t had many of them, but we’ve had a few hedge funds and private equity groups over the years buying properties from us. You know, they’re not picky. Let me tell you, they just buy stuff because they it just doesn’t matter. Right if they pay 10 grand too much for a house is so what like in the big picture to them, it’s meaningless. But if you’re if you’re the investor in that fund, then Hey, you know, there goes your your return, right?

Mike Zlotnik 12:03
Yeah, I wanted to comment on this. So pretty simple. They get paid for doing deals, they’re not getting paid necessarily for performance. So every time they originate they put the money to work, they collect the fee. From their perspective, they need these fees, they don’t really care if they’re lending the money at 7% or eight 8% 9%. As long as the money is coming out, they’re collecting the fees. So sort of these origination fees and what they care about, and it’s counterintuitive. We take an opposite approach. We want to make sure that our investors return, risk adjusted return is maximized. So we care about putting the money at that healthy rate. So as a small operator, we pay attention, the big shops Don’t they have so much money to deploy, that the money burns a hole in your pocket, if it sits idle, it’s a bigger problem for them then putting it to work at the rates that are lower than But they should be.

Jason Hartman 13:01
This is counter intuitive folks. Most people would not think of it this way. And that’s almost like, you know, the bigger the fund, the more meager the returns they will accept. Oddly, you think, I don’t know maybe it’s just me, but I would think it’d be the opposite. I would think if I have a ton of money, I’m gonna get a volume discount, I’m gonna get a bulk discount, right. Not true. It’s, it’s opposite. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Zlotnik 13:30
The other quick thoughts here is that

Mike Zlotnik 13:34
the compression has has been happening the last couple of years, it continues to take place. And what’s strange is we don’t know where the bottom is. The more I speak with people, it just appears that the, the greed of the Wall Street and their desire to just put the money to work feeds reasonable thinking. So they’re flooding the market, with with capital and the consequences, obviously They’re gonna inflate asset inflation in one day. It can the balloon can pop. So it’s, it sure can and it sure will, what goes up must come down, you know, and this is why

Jason Hartman 14:11
I say it’s on the real estate side of this. I mean, of course, you’re talking about the stock market and stuff I know, to a large extent, but on the real estate side of it, look, be in the linear conservative markets, because there you don’t have a big Bubble Pop or risk. But if you are in these high flying markets, boy why watch out because number one, I know for sure, you bought assets or you’re thinking of buying assets that don’t make sense the day you buy them, they don’t cash flow. You’re a speculator, a capital appreciation investor. And, you know, commandment number five is Thou shalt not gamble. So the nice conservative yield oriented investments are the thing to do. Mike, we talked a little bit, you know, we’ve talked a lot over the years and at the venture Alliance meeting and so forth. We’ve got one coming up. I’ll see you in Chicago here real soon, about three weeks away, but what do you think, you know, what’s your take on sort of where the economy is now? The Trump administration, inflation, deflation, interest rates? I think you’re like me that you believe inflation is coming, right.

Mike Zlotnik 15:20
Yeah, absolutely. So

Jason Hartman 15:23
it’s already here. But yeah.

Mike Zlotnik 15:26
Unfortunately, what’s happening is this real simple on the on a grand scale of things US government continues to have terrible balance sheet and every year it’s getting worse, more people retire, entitlements are growing. And the federal budget continues to get worse and worse. What’s the only solution they flood, they borrow more and the unfunded liabilities become real liabilities and the consequence of it is just more money chasing all kinds of assets. So that’s a classic inflation because of The more capital is out there getting printed every year the Federal Reserve Bank just printing capital printing money. And so I think that’s that’s happening everywhere. As far as you know, your day in and day out, has inflation. Well, New York City is booming, but it’s not burb not everywhere else. And I could tell you, because we are the hard money lender with various markets. The market is softening up. So give example Miami. We’re already seeing a significant slowdown in the condo market is already philosophy beginning to show up in the consequence of there’s going to be some level of correction in these super hot markets.

Jason Hartman 16:45
No, no question about it. Get ready, folks, because it’s coming. I I told you a million times there’s, you know, there’s no way any of these markets aren’t way past their fundamentals, these high flying cyclical markets. You know, Miami, New York la washington dc you know the West Coast just anywhere, you know, Boston, blah blah blah they go on and on Paris, New York or not I mentioned the Orca, Hong Kong etc etc right yeah. Dubai

Mike Zlotnik 17:17
yeah but i i will beg to differ just about all in New York City because I know the market I know you all conventional market citizens to a pretty strong although the the the comfortable continues in one day will slow down so it’s inevitable people can be paying for the square foot what they’re paying now it’s almost like got to watch the movie called the rent control cooking about New York City. Manual the listeners oh I didn’t know that that. Oh boy. I’d probably be screaming at the TV if I watch that. A rent control. It’s such a scam. Yeah, very interesting. Very interesting. I do need to see that. I didn’t know there was is that a documentary? Yeah, it’s an old movie. Classic. It’s a common it’s a great, great movie. I don’t know anybody who will not enjoy this movie. But talking about New York City. Yeah, just. But asset inflation continues here, people paying more and more, I think there’s more money in people’s pockets. So this definitely appears to be more capital chasing deals, and there are fewer and fewer asset classes. So foreign capital continues to flow into New York. It needs to be parked somewhere. I have conversation with folks who live in different countries and just they just don’t want to keep the money there. That’s why the money flows here. It’s really safe to the capital.

Jason Hartman 18:33
Well, you you’ve you’ve certainly seen that in Vancouver, too. And that market is changing quite a bit, but it’s been one of these high flying places. And the amazing thing is, and this just is such a testament for how good America is, as a place to invest. I mean, even though it’s all messed up and got a ton of problems, but comparatively, right, that wealthy foreigners use us real estate as a bank. Quite literally. And my building where I live in Las Vegas is, you know, in my cube into my house here, I you know when when you and Elizabeth and Fernando and I met here and we had like a day long meeting at my house during our venture lions trip here in Las Vegas. The last one is the amazing thing is, so many of these units are just vacant, you know, they’re they, they might be furnished, they might not be furnished but the people never come here. They just buy them, especially Chinese buyers. They just buy them and they use the unit as a bank. It’s It’s like putting your money in the bank. They’re not even really necessarily buying them with any huge appreciation expectation which you know, if they get it that’s icing on the cake. I don’t know that they will or they won’t, but you know, that’s a different discussion, but they’re just they’re just banking, their money, you know, they’re just looking for a safe place to put it. And the US has always been known as the Brinks truck. And you know, it can’t all be it Banks, there’s a lot of bank account restrictions, right? But it’s easy to buy real estate, you know, the US is very open to FDI foreign direct investments. So, yeah, interesting, very interesting stuff. So why do you think inflation is coming?

Mike Zlotnik 20:14
GDP growth is incredibly weak. We were basically we’re going to be a two and a quarter or two and a half, we’ll be very happy with lower low GDP. The US economy is not growing fast enough as its financial obligations. And on a federal level. I mean, we I just mentioned the entitlements are going to continue to get worse. It’s also a massive problem on the state level, for the budget continued to get

Mike Zlotnik 20:41
worse and worse in

Mike Zlotnik 20:44
we’re probably going to see sort of a thing called stagflation, where the salaries going to grow slower than the inflation and the money will be chasing more assets, but the incomes are not so it’s bizarre. scenario. But if you were to define what is likely going to happen, in my opinion, deflation is the likely scenario in the United States in this range of stagflation, that’s an

Jason Hartman 21:11
ugly scenario. It’s no fun, it means people’s standard of living will decline, but the assets will keep appreciating. So here’s a, here’s a distinction I want to help the listeners with. And it’s not the first time I’ve talked about it, but it’s important. We haven’t talked about it a ton. So let’s just go into it for a moment. And you’ve alluded to it because you’ve used the phrase a few times asset inflation like, Okay, so, you know, there’s a tendency and I’m guilty of this as well, to just say it generically inflation, right, like inflation, yet, you look at the cost of consumer electronics, you look at the cost of a lot of things, and they keep getting better and cheaper, or at least they get better. They don’t get cheaper but they get better which in effect, by the donek indexing the amount of Pleasure you get from the item, it makes it cheaper. So what what people never consider really too much. And it’s not considered in the consumer price index in terms of inflation, but it really hurts people and leaves them behind is that concept of asset inflation? So even though all of the consumer goods they buy in their life, clothing, electronics might be relatively cheaper, even getting cheaper. How about trying to buy a house? How about trying to enter what I call the investor class, right? How about trying to buy a share of stock in Right? It’s it’s incredibly expensive, and that’s asset inflation, right? If you want to become an investor, all the real estate has become a lot more expensive. And what that does is it leaves people out. People can’t get in that game. And if they can’t get in that game, then they you’re unlikely to be able to build any real wealth. They’re always going to be on the treadmill and in the rat race, as Robert Kiyosaki puts it, right where they’re always, you know, paycheck paycheck, save money, you know, try and save money, try and get ahead. But you never really can, because the only thing that has real leverage are investments, assets. So you’ve got to own assets. And if you have acid inflation, you get left out of the investor class, right? Nobody really considers that too much.

Mike Zlotnik 23:29
That’s right. That’s exactly right. I had conversations with a couple of friends. calculus came together, and there are professionals, doctors and lawyers who are strangers when they go to buy a property here in New York, they find it more and more difficult to buy, because the income doesn’t grow fast enough as the assets price in income growth significantly lags and will continue to lag. After inflation, and they’re very different things people refer to the word inflation but inflation two components income inflation and asset inflation prices for goods and services and they don’t keep up.

Jason Hartman 24:07
Right? It’s consumer price index CPI style inflation, which of course is always understated. But that’s another discussion, understated with waiting substitution and hedonic, which I’ve talked to you about before. It’s also the asset classes, right? So it’s, it’s buying a home in which to live. It’s entering the investor class, you know, when, when the stock market is on a tear when the real estate markets on a tear. Can you even enter the investor class at all, when there’s a ton of asset inflation? And it’s very deceiving, because that is not reflected in the CPI, is it?

Mike Zlotnik 24:45
No, it’s not in the UFC, the right the market center. The good cash flow markets, mid America are much better markets to enter than the high flying markets. It’s very hard to even enter our high flying market. You want to buy a property here in New York, well put 30% down You’re going to barely break even on a cash flow. How does that sound?

Jason Hartman 25:02
Oh, you’re not even gonna break even at 30% hell, you kidding me? Because you’re gonna, you’re gonna end up with a condo in one of those high flying markets with eight to 1200 dollar a month, HOA fees, you know, there, it’s just, it just doesn’t work. I mean, it’s just out of control in those markets. I mean, it’s you just can’t even can’t even get close. Yeah, you know, I mean, I think you’re being very optimistic. 30% down, breakeven, are you?

Mike Zlotnik 25:28
Yeah, well, probably two or three family house in Brooklyn here. He could barely break even limit two or three, you know? But you’re right. Macondo forget kind of a terrible No, what’s interesting is the appreciation has been very spotty to condos appreciated terribly in comparison to housing in in Brooklyn, housing and appreciate much more though.

Jason Hartman 25:50
You know me I don’t like condos. I mean, I’m not saying I’ll never buy one but the deal is gotta be awfully good to look at our condo. So it’s interesting though, Mike, that you think There’s really going to be that much stagnation in the wages. I think there definitely are some factors against that. But one of them that I think is for it is our child president in an adult body and that’s Trump. Okay, you know, who’s who’s really surprisingly mature. See there? I said it folks don’t think I’m some big Trump fan over here. Okay, I don’t want to hear that anymore. I’m not I’m very critical of Trump. But I do think we’re gonna see some decent wage growth under Trump because, you know, you get an immigration under control, which means you stop importing deflationary pressures on the labor market. And if his protectionist trade policies occur, I think that’s going to be more American jobs. You know, this is it’s always a trade off, isn’t it?

Mike Zlotnik 26:50
Yeah, maybe the top is inflationary for incomes in theory, right. We’ll be on immigration policy, but the where the money’s got to come from somewhere in incomes typically grow as corporate earnings accelerate. corporations pay more the they’re able to hire more more more folks. And the grand scale of things as GDP GDP doesn’t grow fast enough, where is the excess capital that we come from to pay people higher salaries?

Mike Zlotnik 27:23
So maybe I made the wrong?

Jason Hartman 27:26
Well, I think it comes out of price growth. I mean, if the companies raise prices through inflation, then they have more money to pay in salaries. I mean, you know, it’s just gonna have they’re gonna have to, if he can’t keep importing cheap labor from south of the border to create this fake deflationary pressure, which, in my opinion, is my big conspiracy theory that I’ve been espousing for over 10 years now about why, you know, why won’t anybody control the border right? The reason they don’t want to, because it letting the immigration process Makes inflation seem lower, it makes it seem like there’s no inflationary pressure that is definitely baked in to the terrible fiscal policies we’ve had for the last 50 years. It’s baked in. But, you know, if you if you import cheap goods from Asia, right, and you import cheap labor from Mexico, that’s going to tame the inflation monster that really is baked into the cake. And they that’s a good way to hide it. I mean, it’s a pretty good business plan for government, I can totally understand why they do it.

Mike Zlotnik 28:33
Well, yeah, I mean, you’re right. There might be some inflationary pressure, but they will have to watch what happens with interest rates. So if they let inflation accelerate a little too much, the interest rates gonna start climbing. And that’ll cause all kinds of grief, including the debt service on the US national debt, there’s going to be there’s going to be a potentially death spiral per se. So I actually believe in the grundrisse If you’re worrying where interest rates can’t really go up a lot, because you’ve gone with can’t afford it, no, then you CPI low then you have to keep increases the Social Security beneficiaries low and need to keep interest rates low to sustain the

Mike Zlotnik 29:19

Mike Zlotnik 29:21
financial system. But But

Jason Hartman 29:23
overall, you do think interest rates are on their way up, right?

Mike Zlotnik 29:28
temporarily, they can they cannot go up too much. So, I mean, this is sort of a good year for real estate, from the point of view that high interest rate obviously, impact real estate negatively. But I just can’t see the interest rates climbing too much and it can get into a normalized point where the 30 year mortgages 6% I don’t think we’re gonna see that in the near future. Yeah, so it’s, you know, who knows who knows what happens to it, but we have to be prepared for the scenario for high interest rates and low interest rate in real estate seems to be the best class to hedge against inflation or even deflation as low real estate does well, too. So,

Jason Hartman 30:14
yeah, no, it’s it’s an it’s an amazing asset class because it’s multi dimensional. And if we see higher interest rates, that will, that will cause a downward pressure on real estate prices, but it will cause upward pressure on real estate rents. So, you know, the beautiful thing about income properties, you can always adjust your strategy. You can do that with a big expensive home in which you live, okay? There you can’t adjust the strategy. But with the the income property you can and that’s, that’s another reason your home is not an asset. You know, you can’t do this stuff with stocks or bonds or any other investment. It’s a very, very unique investment. And speaking of investments, we got to wrap it up. But Mike, your company basically does hard money like So if any of our listeners need financing for properties that they’re buying, or are interested in financing properties, even though there’s like no properties to finance, basically, because there’s so much capital chasing so few deals and and you know, the other problem with hard money lending nowadays is the properties. They don’t keep the loans long enough, you know, they repay them so quickly because the property sells so fast that it’s, it’s a challenge to keep your your money in the game, right?

Mike Zlotnik 31:28
Yeah, I mean, in today’s day and age, you’re right. There’s more money chasing deals and utilizing utilizing all available capital is a little bit harder than before. We do a couple of things we have used to do hard money loans. And just to be clear, we only finance short duration bridge loans for fix and flip or fixed and refi projects. We don’t do any long term loans. We always focus on the short duration, but also have a long term investment fund where we take advantage of the interesting They were trying opportunities and we invest for long term projects in the mid in the mid states, not not coastal markets in these non sexy non interesting cities you never heard about sometimes, and sometimes you’ve heard of these cities, but the projects we invest in are not the sexy projects. These projects generally perform better in downturn in this point, we’re still in the last leg of the, of the growth. So. So that’s what we do. We we try to we try to put the money to work on great projects and maximize the risk adjusted return.

Jason Hartman 32:38
And I mean, Mike, I’m glad you said that, you know, as a general rule in life, it’s not always true, but as a very general rule, sort of a first cut rule, the sexier the deal is, the lower the returns will be, you know, if it’s a trophy property in Newport Beach, California, you’re just not going to get the return that you’re going to get for that. You know, not so simple. property in Indianapolis or Memphis or Atlanta or, you know, wherever, right? You know, in any of the markets you’ll find at Jason slash properties, right? those, those aren’t as sexy, but the returns are better and they’re more solid. Hey, Mike, I look forward to seeing you in Chicago in about three weeks for our venture Alliance mastermind meeting, folks, we have two events coming up, of course, the venture Alliance mastermind meeting, you can go to venture Alliance mastermind calm or Jason Hartman comm click on events. And check that out, talk to your investment counselor in our firm if you have one, or just reach out to us through the website. And then also, we’ve got our Oklahoma City, Jason Hartman University live, which is where you really dive into the numbers you dive into acquisition strategies on properties, and we’re going to do something new at this event. We’re going to do some panel discussions at the Jq live coming up in Oklahoma City in July. We also have a property tour combined with that as well. So we’re going to tour some great properties. I think you should definitely attend those two events. So check those out at Jason on the events section. And Mike, thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate having you

Mike Zlotnik 34:13
Jason. Thank you kindly looking forward to seeing Chicago adventure lines in a couple weeks.

Jason Hartman 34:20
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