In this episode, Jason Hartman finishes a conversation with Doug regarding portfolio reviews, equity percentage, and making your money work for you. Afterward, Jason interviews Dr. Eric Pichet, Professor & Director of Specialized Masters Program in Wealth Management & Real Estate Management at KEDGE Business School in France, about the global real estate market and the current view of cryptocurrency by governments across the globe. They talk about Jason’s thoughts on the European home market, sentiment about cryptocurrencies in Europe, and whether governments and central banks will be moving to crush them soon.

Announcer 0:02
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self-made multi-millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 0:52
Welcome listeners from across America and around the world. This is episode number 998. And your host Jason Hartman with Episode 998. So we are coming up on episode 1000. We got a couple special things for you where you’re going to do a a review of course, which would be very apropos for this kind of momentous occasion. So that is coming up next week. So get ready, get ready, get ready for that. And today, we will do part two of my discussion with Doug. As we talk about portfolio reviews and portfolio makeovers. We have created a nice little piece of mini software, if you will, a little mini piece of software for this exercise. And I’m glad to have private one on one sessions, doing portfolio reviews and portfolio makeovers with any of you who come to our Philadelphia event on May 19. So meet us there and enjoy the event on Saturday. And we will go from about 9am to 6pm. Registration at 830 Saturday morning. This is at a gorgeous Hotel by the way that you’ll love and if you’ve already registered you know the hotel name, we keep this highly classified for registered guests and attendees only. So that’s why I’m not saying the hotel name just so you know. And, and so we’ve got that and we’ll go to about 6pm. We’ve got two local market specialists coming to this event they will be presenting their properties talking about their markets, their management, and then of course I will be doing my creating wealth. Original seminar you know, I am the original investment counselor for this business. I am also the person who named them investment counselors Now many people in our little tiny cottage industry have since copied my name of investment counselor. You know, someone has To think of that originally, and, you know, someone is patting me on the back right now because I thought of that name. No, nobody else did. It was yours truly. Thank you for giving me credit. Okay. I will shut up about this now I have to get it out of my system a little bit. So thank you for indulging me. But yeah, so we’ll do one on one portfolio reviews and portfolio makeovers for you. And I can’t wait to use our snazzy little software for that, as we sit down and do that on hopefully Sunday morning. That is the time we would like to do it. After you have attended the event all day Saturday. And then the following weekend. I know that several of you have purchased guest tickets for the venture Alliance weekend in New York City. So thank you for doing that. And thank you for joining us. We have one of really the best attended venture Alliance events coming up in New York City. So I’m really excited about that. In the Big Apple Memorial Day weekend with the venture Alliance, if you’re interested in that, go to Jason Really, if you’re interested in either event, click on events, or talk to your investment counselor, named by yours truly, with our company and get more information about either of those events or both of them.

Okay. Anyway, let’s go ahead and dive in and continue this conversation with Doug. And then we have a guest today that will be talking about European markets, European economy, obviously, when you look at the European economy that has a huge impact on the US economy, and the overall world economy and real estate markets. And we will also be talking a little bit about cryptocurrency. Oh yes, we’ve all heard just way too much about cryptocurrency lately, haven’t we? But we have a guest expert on that today. So this will be kind of a three part show. So let’s go ahead and dive in. And here we go, continuing our discussion from Monday with Doug, talking about portfolio review and portfolio makeover.

So, look, let’s take people through and just give them a little taste quickly because we got to get to our guests on what I’m going to do for them. If they want. It’s optional on Sunday morning in Philadelphia, Sunday the 20th.

Doug 5:32
So basically, what you’re going to be doing is you’re going to say, Okay, we have this simple spreadsheet where I just want you to list out your kind of what your personal assets look like, Yeah. What’s your primary residence? Do you have a second home? Do you have any investment properties? Do you have stocks and bonds and Ira, personal property checking and savings or your FICO score? That’s an asset.

Jason Hartman 5:50
I asked you to have that one because that’s an asset. Your ability to borrow is a big asset folks. Correct?

Doug 5:56
Yeah. So then we’ll say right, what’s the asset value? What’s the loan balance? And then if you’re going to disposition it, you know, what kind of haircut are you looking at? Because like, if you want to sell a property that’s pregnant, it cost you about 7%. If you want to break open an IRA, that’s going to cost you about 10%. Do you want to sell a vehicle that’s going to cost you more than that? But then what that’s going to get you to is right, what’s your real gross equity? And then look at what’s your cash flow per year that you’re producing on that. And then you divide those two numbers that tells you what is your return on your real equity. And so in the case of like your primary residence, that number is going to be zero because nobody gets cashflow on their primary residence. And for investment properties, that’ll be higher for your stocks, that’ll be something because you get dividends. But then when you add all that up, you’re gonna say for my whole portfolio, what is my return on equity, and for a lot of people, it’s pretty low because you have a lot of equity sitting in assets that don’t produce a very high cash return and

Jason Hartman 6:48
I have a couple of names for that. I call it lazy money or sleepy money. And the important thing is, you know, like if you owned a business or if you’re a boss or a manager Any type, you would never want a lazy employee or sleepy employee, you want that person working for you, right? You want them being active? Why do we let our money get lazy? It’s crazy. We got to make our money work for us to

Doug 7:13
Exactly. And so the whole idea is to say, okay, you know, you have a certain distribution of your net worth and your net capital. And let’s say, if we reshift that around, can we create more value? Because ultimately, right, that’s what entrepreneurs do. The actual textbook definition of an entrepreneur is somebody who takes resources and deploys them to their highest and best use. So you’re taking your resources and finding their highest and best use and then taking those actions. And then in exchange for that you’re going to earn a higher rate of return. This is what a company like Uber does, right? They take people’s cars that they’re not driving, find a higher and better use for it. And now they’re disrupting industry and creating value for consumers. You’re going to do the exact same thing, but create value for tenants because you’re you’re going to be Providing a reasonable place for them to stay at a reasonable price, and hopefully are not going to be a jerk landlord. And in exchange for that you’re going to get a rent that will help make you wealthy.

Jason Hartman 8:08
Absolutely. Okay, good, good stuff. So what does it look like? I mean, maybe share just an example, quickly of, you know what it looks like once this review is done, like from where to where well, how much shorter instead it make it in someone’s life.

Doug 8:23
So for example, I put a hypothetical example together, where you had a combination of say, like a home, a local rental, etc. And you end up with about, I think, $700,000 of gross equity. Well, if you take that $700,000 and you said, Okay, I’m going to invest in properties that average about $150,000 with a 20%, down payment of 4% cash review, and that are going to produce a return on equity of about 15%, which is, I think, pretty standard for most of the stuff on your portfolio. That’s going to result in a portfolio of about 15 properties. Well, if I do that, then the annual cash flow goes up by about $30,000 a year. You know, and of course, there’s appreciation to the appreciation is about the same. But I think the thing that’s really important is if when you get to where you’re increasing your portfolio return on equity. Now what happens is you can be producing enough cash per year to where you can purchase another property every year, that will, in turn help you produce more cash per year. The thing that’s important about that return on equity construct is that not only does it tell you how to distribute your portfolio, it tells you when to redistribute your portfolio. So like, for example, one of the questions another

Jason Hartman 9:37
way to put that is rebalance right now, because what happens, which is a great problem to have, and it’s happened to me many, many times, and I’ve shared on the show the example that I personally did with my own portfolio, where I’ll have a property that has appreciated the rents never keep up with the appreciation. So all 1031 exchange out of that, and do the two for one, I’ll get two properties for one, another client of ours shared on the show, they did a three for one. So they had highly appreciated property. And you know, it was an income property, but the rent never keeps up with sales prices. By the way, folks, this is one of the things that’s much better about residential real estate or single family homes than commercial real estate, because the vast majority of the time, they just appreciate so much faster. Why is that? Well, because they’re not sold based on the income approach, commercial properties sold based on the income approach, and I’ll freely admit that, you know, the income approach changes and cap rates go down in a highly appreciating crazy market, but not to the extent that residential property does. I mean, these just get way out of whack, which is good for you when you’re a seller. It’s wonderful. Right,

Doug 10:52
exactly. And another way that I’d articulate your point is to say that commercial properties are purchased and sold rationally whereas residential properties are purchased and sold emotionally embrace the

Jason Hartman 11:03
irrationality and like I say, embrace the fragmentation. Yeah, absolutely. And you can add value in, you know, sort of fluffy ways. You know, you put some paint on it, you put plant some flowers in front versus a commercial property, you got to go and actually create income that’s much harder to do.

Doug 11:20
Darn. right it is. So now, when we keep going on this example, you know, here we’ve produced a significant amount of additional return on equity per year. Well, I think the thing that’s really important about that idea is that, you know, say as your properties appreciate, you know, or do let’s say the price of something goes down, people say, Okay, well, the price my property just compressed, do I sell it? I go, Okay, well, one way to look at it is to say, say the price your property just dropped by 10% and your equity position just went down really low. Well, now your return on equity for that property is sky high. As long as it’s producing income, there’s no point in selling it. Now on the other hand, let’s say that you have a personal residence That’s doubled in value. You have a whole bunch of equity sitting there that’s producing no income. Well, do you want to sell your residence? Maybe not. Maybe you like living there? Well, maybe you should refinance your residence. So you’d reduce your equity exposure there, and then redeploy that equity somewhere else, where you can earn a higher return on equity and increase your portfolio ROI. Are we Sorry? It’s really not ROI return on equity

Jason Hartman 12:26
is yes. Work. Yes. And by the way, for those of you who’ve been listening a long time, you’ve heard me say that I don’t think there is any return on equity, return on equity is a false metric. Well, you know, sort of, okay. I mean, the point is that the more equity you have, the worse the return gets. And the less equity you have, the better the return because it means you’re more leveraged, right? Everybody should understand that idea. And the concept of it, not being a legitimate metric at all, is the contract. Except that the property will perform the same way, regardless of the amount of equity you have. In other words, it will either appreciate in value or depreciate in value, regardless of the amount of equity you have. And it will rent and produce the same income regardless of the amount of equity you have. And so to that point, I’ll just give you the example. Does any tenant or maybe when you’ve been a tenant, did you ever ask the owner or care about how much equity they have in the property or what their mortgage payment was every month? Well, you know, your mortgage payment is 1500. Let me help you cover that. No but no renter ever asked that, okay, they do not care. They go by the market rent, they do not go by the sellers circumstances or the owners circumstances.

Doug 13:52
Exactly. I mean, and in corporate finance, one of the reasons why return on equity is tracked so much is because it actually creates an incentive for corporate managers to reduce the amount of owner’s equity on the balance sheet, either by paying out dividends doing share buybacks, or by increasing debt leverage so that we choose exactly

Jason Hartman 14:12
what we’re telling all of you to do. Right. Exactly the same way the corporate finance bigwigs and I’m sure we got a few of those listening, by the way, reduce that balance sheet equity to create more diversification and better returns is the exactly the technique we’re using here. Right?

Doug 14:30
Exactly. Yeah, it’s the corporate types don’t have to all be evil. There’s plenty who are evil, but they don’t have to all be evil.

Jason Hartman 14:36
Yeah. Well, there’s plenty of non corporate types that are evil too. So

Doug 14:40
it’s an equal opportunity state of mind.

Jason Hartman 14:42
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, good. What else do we need to know?

Doug 14:47
Well, I think the next thing we need to know is I have people come to Philadelphia because I think we’re actually probably out of time for this for this intro, but, but yeah, let’s continue this conversation and definitely come to Philly so you can do this Jason.

Jason Hartman 14:58
Good stuff. Good stuff. Well done. Thank you so much for sharing that. And let’s get to our guest interview portion and hear from him and dive into that. So here we go. And by the way for Philadelphia, Jason Hartman calm, click on events and get your tickets. Thanks for joining us.

Doug 15:18
No problem.

Jason Hartman 15:27
It’s my pleasure to welcome Dr. Eric Shea. He is Professor and Director of specialized master’s program in wealth management and real estate management at the kids Business School. And he’s coming to us today from Paris, France. Welcome, Eric. How are you? Fine, thank you. How are you? Good. It’s good to have you here. I love your accent. I guess I have an accent to you.

Eric Pichet 15:48
I hope that you

Jason Hartman 15:50
can understand my French accent. Well, French is likely the most beautiful language on Earth. So it’s, it’s great to have you here. You know, let’s talk a little bit about the glue. Real Estate Market, it seems like things have been booming in many parts of the world for quite a while now. Where are we in the cycle? And what is your your global outlook?

Eric Pichet 16:11
You know, there is no such thing as a global real estate market. In fact,

Jason Hartman 16:17
I’m glad you said that, in fact, there isn’t the national real estate market all real

Eric Pichet 16:23
good. Not even not even at the national level. Yes. For example, in continental Europe, you have so many differences between if you take the capital of each country, for example, in Paris, we have payments at about 1004 square meter for the office. In Vienna, it’s $300 per square meter. So it’s completely different. But what you say is, in fact, effectively, we can see now that the cycle is about this. We are probably at the same Timing in the cycle in the different areas in different countries in America have a big return your head, and in continental Europe, we are just behind you. And that’s probably the reason why there is some interesting investments is possible in continental Europe.

Jason Hartman 17:20
So let me just do a little conversion has two square meters in square footage, it’s about 10 square feet to the meter. You know, very roughly, if you say that the rent in Paris, for example, that would be I’m sorry, what? The Prime rent Okay, what do you mean by that

Eric Pichet 17:40
as the best as the best quiddity for right for office? Yes, of course, in the center in the center of Paris. Got it. Got it.

Jason Hartman 17:49
And oh, now you’re talking about office rents. Not residential. Okay. Okay. Okay. We need to know if that’s monthly or annual eyes, obviously, but forget about that. Can we do Talk about residential on the residential side.

Eric Pichet 18:02
That would be okay, great. The same, but for example, in the residential, you have so many differences, for example, between Paris and big German cities that we see is much more expensive, you know, probably two or three times. And if you compare Paris with the provincial cities in France, it’s the same situation, you have a price of 10,000 euros, so about 12,000 euros per square meter in Paris. After that the nice it’s probably 4000. And in the province or cities, it’s between 3004 thousand. So very important differences rather big difference.

Jason Hartman 18:47
I talked about this on a global level constantly here, but I’d like to get your perception of it. So we help investors from all over the world invest in properties all over the US And we basically divide real estate markets into three categories. And I think I think it’d be interesting to hear your perspective on this. We talked about linear markets, cyclical markets and hybrid markets. And the cyclical markets are the high flying high priced high land value markets. So when you talk about prime rent, for example, in Paris, or the German cities, etc, and I was born in Germany, by the way, when we talk about that, those would be the cyclical markets. And then the linear markets are sort of these kind of boring markets that kind of chug along they appreciate but it’s moderate appreciation. When there’s a downturn, the downturns very moderate, versus the high flying cyclical markets, the high priced markets, the fluctuations are are much greater. They’re more like a, you know, if you were looking at a chart, they’d looked like a rollercoaster ride or a graph, I should say. Can you speak to that at all those cyclical linear and hybrid Market hybrid just being in between the two, kind of a, you know, in between the two. Do you view markets that way in Europe or around the world for that matter?

Eric Pichet 20:09
No, it’s it’s quite stable. So I think we don’t have it. So, so important changes, as you can see in the United States, as a market for housing markets, of course, I speak about housing market. It’s relatively stable, but we have huge differences between cities. That’s absolutely clear from big Paris and as your as your cities in France, it’s completely different, for example, in Germany, and the six of seven cities about at the same at the same price. No,

Jason Hartman 20:47
yeah, and I’m not really addressing the issue of price directly. I’m more addressing the issue of appreciation and depreciation during the economic cycles over the course of decades. That’s how we, you know, know which markets are linear versus cyclical. But it’s kind of interesting because in Europe, the real estate market is so different than in the US, I would venture to say, and just correct me if I’m wrong, that the real estate market, there is a more slow moving market. And I would say this for a couple of reasons. Number one, people, it’s not as active, you know, people just don’t sell their houses like they in the US, it’s a more sort of, to put it negatively a disposable mentality like, Hey, you know, we’re gonna move. I mean, the US is a very mobile country. I mean, the brokerage industry is much smaller in Europe, because there’s just not as many transactions. That would be one factor. So you’d agree with that. And then the next factor would be that, you know, you have a lot more government interference in in European markets. For example, you mentioned Germany. I mean, there’s tons of rent control. I heard that in Germany. You can even will your rented apartment. Wow. That’s the I may be wrong, but I have heard that before. Speak to some of that stuff.

Eric Pichet 22:04
Yes. And don’t forget that in your, in each country you have a different language. So you do right or do with changes that’s so easy as in the United States. No more friction.

Jason Hartman 22:15
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. All sorts of problems taxation, because when you buy a house in France, you pay about 80% of fees for buying the flats, you know, so it’s very important right right. So, in other words, when transaction costs are high in languages vary and sometimes currencies vary, but not as much as they used to with the Euro obviously, and you know, countries and things vary and government level of government intrusion in the market varies. You have more friction, so the market is less fluid than it is in the States. Right?

Eric Pichet 22:52
Absolutely. And people are happy to stay normally in the flats or in the house for 30 years. Like to keep in the same place. And another thing is, for example, if you work in Paris, you can work 40 years in Paris without any problems with your spos. It’s very easy, you know, those are important points, just to stay in the same place.

Jason Hartman 23:17
That’s the interesting point two. So I would argue and I don’t mean to speak negatively about Europe when I say this, but I would argue that the US is a more upwardly mobile country. And people can change their status more easily here. Because there’s less government intrusion, there’s less interference in labor markets, and so forth. And that makes it more fluid. And whenever there’s more fluidity, there’s more volatility, because things can change more quickly. Whereas like you said, in Europe, you can work for the same owner in France. You can work for the same company for 40 years. You got very strong labor unions and very strong labor laws. Protect correcting people and making it hard to fire people and you know, so there’s a good and bad to this obviously, right? It is tempting. It’s tempting to kind of change your job and stay in the same place. Yes. That’s important also. Yeah, interest

Eric Pichet 24:13
is fiction is much more important.

Jason Hartman 24:17
Right. So the friction slows down. it lessens the cycle. Right? it smooths that. It also talks about taxation. What about that?

Eric Pichet 24:28
Because when you buy a house, you pay 80% of sexy of taxes, you know?

Jason Hartman 24:34
Yeah. And that’s, that’s taxes only that doesn’t include the watch. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Any other thoughts about the linear cyclical markets that changes the volatility where we are in the cycle or anything like that?

Eric Pichet 24:51
It’s a problem cycle in France, for example, you know, in principle, we have seven years cycle it’s qualitatively Easy to see the street, for example, we had the high in 1990. After that, we had the low of the cycle in 1998. And the new high in 2006. And four funds in general in housing market, you have after that too low in 2014. You know, and now we are quite in the upside. But for Paris, it’s completely different, because with the crisis in 2008, you know, people were very afraid from securities from everything, you know, securities or the stock market and so on. They decided to ban exclusively in the state and that is the reason why, for 2008 which is a city with you portant upside you notice a trend is always probably because French people wants to buy real estate because they are safe from buying something else, you know.

Jason Hartman 26:12
So in other words, the money flows out of other investments because of fear

Eric Pichet 26:17
out of the stock market out of the bonds because bonds and you know what, in France is a 10 year bonds open 7% Right, right. Okay. Oh point 7%

Jason Hartman 26:29
Yeah, so, so the money there’s definitely a high level of interest in owning real estate there. But let’s maybe compare that and let’s talk about the cryptocurrency mania reminds me of tulip mania, that is going on what is the view toward Bitcoin and the cryptocurrencies there and around Europe in general.

Eric Pichet 26:53
It’s it’s an asset, but it’s interesting because a lot of people compare Bitcoin with real estate effect it’s completely different. The real estate it’s a tangible asset, and Bitcoin it’s intangible assets. And the problem with Bitcoin I think the technology is very innovative and probably useful. And I’m sure that the legacy of Bitcoin will be the use of blockchains possibility to treat cancer. With a decentralized system. It’s probably something which is very important. But as people, for example, my students, you know, what young people and educated people, not educated people want to buy, to use these tips to Kevin C. As an instrument of speculation. I’m sure that we are now inside the bubble, you know, we are in the in the bubble. It was the DI D power units the idea of the founder, but now it is used as a The instrument of speculation.

Jason Hartman 28:02
Oh, I agree it’s highly speculative and many people,

Eric Pichet 28:06
some people that said, you know, when you base for example, collectibles, you buy stamps. Okay? You can you can see a burn on collectibles.

Eric Pichet 28:16
You can you can base times, for example, if you ever been on stamps, when’s the best we will burst you you have something material which is a Bitcoin you have absolutely nothing zero. So that’s the reason why intrinsic value of the Bitcoin.

Jason Hartman 28:39
I would agree. And you know what’s so interesting about this, Eric? Is that the Bitcoin people and the cryptocurrency people, they’re like the gold bugs in the sense that they say, Well, you know, the dollar and the euro and other currencies are just fiat money, right, but, I mean, at least they’re backed by First of all a military of their various countries or respective countries, they’re backed by the rule of law in those countries. In fact, they are the law in the United States, the legal tender laws requires that you accept them in commerce. It’s just crazy how they talk about the the the fact that they can be printed forever. But you can create a new cryptocurrency and a new one tomorrow and another one the next day and another one the next day, you know, there’s no limit at whatsoever, there may only be 21 million bitcoins, but there’s no limit to the number of cryptocurrencies that can emerge and you see that from all these Icos right.

Eric Pichet 29:41
But don’t forget that in 2010, you know, in 2000, your telecom

Jason Hartman 29:49
and bubble,

Eric Pichet 29:51
right. Yes, yes. It was exactly the same. Every equity in these sector. We are booming here, you know, Just one, you have, of course, a lot of initial public offer to feed the population as people will want to buy everything and, you know, at the time, and I think it’s exactly the same situation.

Jason Hartman 30:15
I would agree with you. I think it’s a bubble. I think it’s very dangerous. People are buying cryptocurrencies with their credit cards with their home equity. Boy, when this goes the other direction, we’re gonna have a lot of very sorry people out there. But hey, like I’ve said, I’d love nothing more than to be wrong about it because I’d love to see an alternative to the central banking cartel and, and the government’s unholy alliance with them. And I’m talking about every central bank and every government. Let’s talk about the regulatory side of that. How are the cryptocurrencies viewed by the governments and central banks, both in Europe and around the world? I would think unfavorably. This represents competition for the currencies like the euro and the dollar then not gonna allow competition to just exist and crowd out their

Eric Pichet 31:03
currencies. In fact, you have two problems. The first problem is cryptocurrency you have world currency in it. And the problem is, of course that cryptocurrency absolutely no currency. It’s not a store of value, not a unit of account and not a medium of exchange because a lot of people don’t want to accept cryptocurrency, I think in Europe, central central banks at the beginning, didn’t consider that cryptocurrencies. Were something serious, you know. And now with of course, in the amount of capitalization of about $200 billion for the Bitcoin, they are looking in size of books of books and, and a lot of people you know, we have some famous, which we can say you’re famous to a young girl Who asked for low wealth to buy your bitcoins, even if she had absolutely no idea of what bitcoins could be, you know, at that stage, I think the central banks and the authorities thinking about how to not only to monitor, but probably also to point to the use of bitcoins, and you think we are now at this time in the cycle. So if of course, if the bank defaults or European Central Bank’s site, it’s up to the user of VidCon. You can imagine the situation of course,

Jason Hartman 32:41
so they are looking for ways to monitor or prohibit

Eric Pichet 32:46
people that need to monitor and why not

Jason Hartman 32:49
monitor is really just another word for regulate. So it monitor regulate and or prohibit the use of these cryptocurrencies and you see that going on. In South Korea, they’ve made a very clear statement about cryptocurrencies that people are going to lose their money. And I think that these central bankers and governments are they’re gonna shut this down, they’re just not going to let it go.

Eric Pichet 33:16
You know, why would they they hate it.

Jason Hartman 33:18
You know, we’d like it. You said at first, they probably didn’t consider it to be a threat or any real competition for their their fiat money. But I think that’s changing.

Eric Pichet 33:26
I think we probably see maybe in a couple of months, a lot of concept countries, the G 20, for example. So you will see Bitcoin is a tool for money laundering. It’s a tool for terrorism, terrorism financing. So we have to for a bit because of this use, you know, to an excellent event, of course, yeah,

Jason Hartman 33:51
yeah. No, I completely agree with you. I’m not I’m not bullish on this. But again, I want to state that I would like to be wrong about this. But I don’t think I’m gonna give out your website if you would and close up with any any comments you have maybe a question I didn’t ask you. This has been an interesting discussion.

Eric Pichet 34:10
Hey, we should say,

Jason Hartman 34:12
Eric er IC p IC H e t.fa. Right. Fantastic. Any closing thoughts you have?

Eric Pichet 34:20
No, it’s it’s clear. Thank you. It’s very interesting to talk about these important questions. Yeah, exactly. Good timing to discuss on that.

Jason Hartman 34:30
Very good. Well, Eric vishay. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you.

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