In this Flashback Friday episode, Jason Hartman interviews Greg Hunter, an investigative correspondent and the founder of USAWatchdog.com. They talk about Greg’s story “Produce the Note,” in which he uncovered that in 40% of foreclosures, the bankers could not prove they legally own the property. Jason and Greg also discuss Robo signers, inflation, and collateral crisis.
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This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.
Jason Hartman 0:09
Hey, this is Jason Hartman, thank you so much for joining me. Do you know what day it is? Yes, it is flashback Friday, where you hear the best of the creating wealth show and you hear some good prior episodes, some good review. Remember, we’ve got almost 500 episodes out. And you know what? iTunes doesn’t even hold them all if you’re an iTunes listener, if you are listening on Stitcher, thank you for joining us. So we want to bring you some good review stuff. Now. What’s interesting about flashback Friday, it’s a little scary for me. I got to be very, very candid with you on that. Because you the listener, you get the chance to hold my feet to the fire. Did I make any predictions? Was I right? Was I wrong? I’ve been right about a lot of things, but I’ve been wrong about a few. So you can give me a hard time about that if you wish. But it’s flashback Friday, and we will give you the uncensored Best of the creating wealth show with a prior episode. So let’s dive in. Here we go. Remember, this is not current. It’s flashback Friday.
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Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur whose own properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day, you really can do it on Now, here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 2:12
Thanks for sticking with us. And I hope you’re getting a lot out of the show. We had a fantastic masters weekend, it just ended. And it just concluded yesterday. And it was just a great weekend, three days packed full of experts and information and fantastic clients will give you a more of a brief on the weekend on a future show. But I just have to say that I absolutely love all of our clients and appreciate your support and appreciate you listening to the show. And thank those of you who flew out and travelled quite a distance to come and join us for the Masters weekend. We really appreciate that. That is a nice compliment. And we’re glad that you find that worthwhile to jump on a plane, rent a car, pay for a hotel, all of that stuff to come out to the Masters weekend. I don’t want to go into that too much. Now. We’ll update you on a future show about masters weekend and some of the guests and so forth and have some various audio sound bites from that. But this topic is rather well topical. I wanted to get it out to you quickly. I recently interviewed Greg hunter who is the head of USA watchdog.com. And he’s an investigative journalist and he’s been doing quite a few stories on foreclosure fraud the MERS system. You’ve probably heard that acronym MERS we’ll be talking about that I hear on the show that’s m er s and how Congress may have tried to legalize foreclosure fraud the implication of foreclosure fraud and whether or not it might mean another meltdown of the banking system. Without further ado, I’d like to get this interview right out to you rather than waiting on it. We have a lot of great shows coming up of course on a variety of different topics on home based businesses, internet businesses, lots more on real estate investing and internet marketing and the whole gamut. So we will be back with the interview with Greg here in just less than one minute.
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Remember, you’re listening to flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published every Monday and Wednesday.
It’s my pleasure to welcome investigative journalist Greg Hunter to the show. He is a very very interesting and knowledgeable journalist. He’s got an tremendous background in the media and so forth with CNN, I guess. Is CNN, Greg, your most recent?
Greg Hunter 4:57
most recent before that Good Morning America and A year ago, I started my USA watchdog.com I trademark the name, and my first week or so of putting this on first month, I have eight people, 10 people, right. And last month I had 84,000 visitors and 275,000 pageviews in the month before that was about the same and it’s really, really growing.
Jason Hartman 5:17
Well, you’re doing some great work. So Greg, welcome to the show. Let’s maybe first cover the big news out that last week I believe it was. JP Morgan Chase decided to hold foreclosures and now, this morning, I was just sent an article which I have not had time to read that BFA is halting foreclosures and wells may follow. Is that correct?
Greg Hunter 5:38
That is correct. Yes.
Jason Hartman 5:39
What’s going on out there?
Greg Hunter 5:41
Well, for years, what the subprime crisis was all about was the accident, tail end of the mortgage-backed security Bonanza, they wanted to sell houses to anybody with a pulse, so they could get the mortgage and package it into a security and sell it mortgage-backed securities, they have 10s of trillions of mortgage-backed securities out there. It’s one of the biggest pieces of the over the counter derivative. It’s a, it’s a derivative is derived from. So they weren’t really worried about the paperwork, they were worried about the income flow. The derivative was derived from people making their mortgage payments, and they would sell these bonds to CalPERS, you know, to the Texas State Teachers funds to hedge funds banks, and they would all pay a couple of percentage points higher than a treasury but they’re equal to a treasury they were a risk free return triple-A rated. Well, now we find out they’re not so triple-A rated. And now we find out that these mortgages that they produce, they didn’t keep track of the paperwork.
Now, you can go on my site, USA watchdog calm and you could take a look at one of the things that I’ve written about just the last week I did all foreclosure this week. And that was could foreclosure fraud calls another banking meltdown? And the answer is yes, it could. So imagine a market where there’s 60 million homes, 60 million homes, 60 million mortgages that are electronically filed. And with something called the mortgage electronic registry system, the mirror system. You don’t have the paperwork, you’ve lost the paperwork, or there’s fraud on the paperwork, for whatever reason, you can’t go to court and go to court and say, Hey, Your Honor, we own this house and john smith here, stop paying for it. And here’s his original promissory note. And if you look on my site, look under my bio section and look at a piece called produced a note I was one of the first journalists on the mainstream media to come up with Wow, this is a big problem. They cannot produce the proof. They own the house, and they want to go to court and take your house and they have to produce the note, they have to produce the proof.
So here’s what this is all about, you know the robo signers. Well, they were signing off on what Alan Grayson, a congressman from Central Florida and others called mortgage fraud. Foreclosure meals. They were just inventing the documents and getting an affidavit signed by a notary to say yeah, this is true and accurate. And and it isn’t the proof to foreclose on the house and taking it to the court and say, Hey, we have an affidavit signed by by our back office. This shows we prove with Wait a minute. No, it doesn’t. It was fraudulent. They don’t have the original documents. Oh, now fast forward to last week. They tried to pass a bill. They did pass a bill in the House and the Senate in the Senate was you slipped it through without any public debate because of a senatorial procedure. Both Democrats and Republicans. This is why I dislike both parties. Unanimously voted for a bill that would force courts to accept any out-of-state documents signed by a notary. So in other words, if they fraudulently produced and they were producing these, according to Alan Grayson, by the 10s of thousands to prove the bank owned the real estate that they were foreclosing on, that they Robo signed. Well, they were signing documents that were fraudulent that that’s that was a promissory note that would they would take and show the judge. Hey, see right here, john smith. Oh, will you? Well, this is a this is a notarized buyer affidavit since the original document No, well, no. But we authentic, we have authenticated it with our notaries. Well, No you didn’t. They were going to pass a bill that forced the courts to accept that. Make it very hard to foreclose on our house. Well, guess what President Obama did he manned up, he manned up and said, No, no, you didn’t? No, no, you didn’t veto first of my office coming up. I’m gonna veto this bill. No way. I’m not signing this. You think about the trial attorneys that have helped put him into office, they’re gonna say, well, you just go to kibosh the Constitution and the courts. You’re going to basically allow the banks to fraudulently come up with documents. Well, they can not know if you quit making your payments, their stories about people who didn’t even have a mortgage. This isn’t Bloomberg. Didn’t even had a mortgage, and they were foreclosing on the guy’s house.
Jason Hartman 9:39
Wow, amazing.
Greg Hunter 9:41
Now you think about let’s let’s let that settle in here for your listeners. 60 million homes. 60 million mortgages are in the mirrors system, the mortgage electronic registry system, no paperwork for 16 million mortgages. No paperwork for 60 million mortgages. I mean, oh, my goodness, well, if you packaged up 10s of trillions of dollars in mortgage backed securities, and you sold them to hedge funds and to pension funds, and banks are sitting on this, and there’s no backing to the mortgage backed security, you don’t have clear title or a clear path to the title for the real estate that backs the security, you get how vast this problem is.
Jason Hartman 10:26
It’s a giant problem. And it leads to and and the biggest ever moral hazard possibly. Let me ask you a question first, because I don’t want to I don’t want to leave the subject of what Obama just did. So that means kind of generally then that if someone bought a property outside of their state, they probably had a notary in their own state.
Greg Hunter 10:46
No, no, no, no. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the banks in one state headquartered in one state, producing a document where if they’re foreclosing in another state, they produce a document that would force the courts to accept it, unchallenged. So in other words, just that you’ve been paying, you couldn’t pay your your mortgage or you’ve been paying your mortgage, or then all of a sudden, the bank wants to foreclose on your house. What has been happening with the robo signers, but this is all about what these quote unquote Robo signers were doing. Were signing documents that are allegedly fraudulent. That wasn’t the original signature of the homeowner upon the promissory note, that wasn’t the original paperwork, the homeowner signed, that wasn’t the terms of the original document that’s supposed to be registered and tracked with a paper document passed off from one to another nuts bought and sold our electronic system. And so what he said was, Oh, no, no, no, no, you know, you can’t work and force people to take for fraudulent documents. We’re not going to force the courts to accept documents from out of state where they can’t verify their authenticity, we’re not going to do that. And that’s going to happen. I’m gonna veto this bill. So that’s what happened. That’s reason why they were signing these things in mass. They had 60 million mortgages out there 60 million. They don’t have the paperwork that shows they own them. They bought them. They sold them. They made a commission, they packaged them up into a security. Oh, by the way, where’s the paperwork that says you own this house at 3131 Deer Park Lane?
Greg Hunter 12:09
We don’t have it. You see what I’m saying?
Jason Hartman 12:11
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Greg Hunter 12:13
What the, what the new set with the senate bill with the House and Senate Bill 3808 was going to do was force courts to accept any notarized document. So in other words, they could invent a document, get a notary, firstly, to like to say, Oh, yeah, this is our authentic document, right, and take it to the court and take the houses back.
Jason Hartman 12:29
So they’re not going to be able to do that. And so that means it’s going today. That means it’s going to be much harder for lenders to foreclose on properties, right?
Greg Hunter 12:36
But it also means the bigger picture, there’s no backing for the 10s of trillions of dollars, and people are going to have a hard time getting their head around this no backing for the 10s of trillions of dollars for mortgage-backed securities.
Jason Hartman 12:50
So what does that mean? I mean,
Greg Hunter 12:52
That means that these securities, that remember they had to credit this member they hit they said they had a credit freeze up, they didn’t have a credit crisis. They had a collateral crisis. Yeah, we use these mortgage-backed securities as collateral as money that everybody was heard, oh, no, no, no, that’s not money. Well, I don’t trust the collateral. Well, now you find out why they didn’t trust the collateral. They’re not trusting collateral, because there’s no now there’s no clear title to the collateral backing up the mortgages. Now, think about that some of these banks, I think Wells Fargo alone has 5 trillion in over the counter derivatives. A big chunk of that got to be mortgage backed securities, as some of the other banks have 10s of trillions. And because of a counting rule changed by the financial accounting standards, sports called faz B financial accounting standard, where they change the rules, they threw out 200 years of accounting principle and what you say, Hey, I’m gonna value an asset on my books, and it’s called fair market, I’m gonna mark to market I’m gonna value it for what I can get for it today. And they changed it to to mark to model you can value it at whatever you think you can get for in the future. That’s like me having 10 ounces of gold, and I want to go to the bank and say, Hey, I’m gonna have collateral make this loan. But you know what, I’m not going to value my 10 ounces at 1300 and $43 an ounce, I’m going to value it at that 10,000 I really have $130,000. In collateral, I look a lot better than what I really do, because I’m going to value my gold for what I think I can get for 10 years from now understand how that works. So they change the accounting to make the banks the big banks look better than what they are. And it’s not just the securities are holding on their books, even the smaller banks or the commercial real estate, the physical residential real estate, you know, if they loan money on this stuff in 2004 and five, and it’s gone down 40% guess what, they’re still holding it on their books at what they loaned money on it at 2004 or five even though the even though the things down 40 50% some states is down 50%
Jason Hartman 14:43
But how come they didn’t have the mark to market?
Greg Hunter 14:45
Because they changed the accounting rule. Right? They went from valuing what you should value your and they should be ashamed of themselves that the financial accounting standard ports because that’s legalized. I wrote about this on one of my pieces that legalized accounting fraud. Government sanctioned accounting fraud that only makes the banks look better than what they really, truly are. And then they say, well, it’ll boost profits. Well, you bet it does. If you can hold bad loans and bad deals, on your books at whatever you think they should be any money you get in, Wow, that looks like a profit. In reality, you know, you could be insolvent.
Jason Hartman 15:19
So Greg, I mean, what’s going to happen, then? I mean, what’s your prediction on this? Is the government going to bail out all of these funds and all the and just print more
Greg Hunter 15:27
Overtly or covertly?
Jason Hartman 15:29
How will they do a covertly?
Greg Hunter 15:31
Well, for example, the Federal Reserve took 230. This came up in a congressional hearing, it’s in the Federal Register, Alan Grayson was asking Vikram Pandit, the CEO of Citi group about. Hey, you know, the Federal Reserve took 200 and $30 billion of toxic mortgages, mistakes off your books, and he just looked there and smiled, said, Yeah, yeah. 200 and 30 billion, that’s beside the tarp that’s beside any money given to them. That’s beside all that. They had that and they weren’t the only bank that had toxic securities, these mortgage backed securities, if you have a security that’s paying an interest rate, and a, you lose the backing to the security and be people who are paying the derivative to derive value, the income stream, people stopped paying their mortgages. Well, how much is that bond worth? Oh, oh, and here’s another one, you know, how they wanted to have these mortgage modifications, you know, they wouldn’t do it permanently. They didn’t do it because they didn’t own the note. They didn’t own the actual physical. They’ve already packaged this and sold this. So let’s say they go to Greg’s retirement fund that I have for all the teachers in Minnesota, and they say, hey, Greg, remember that security rated triple-A equal to a treasure? Yes. Great. It was just as safe as a treasury. Right? Yep. And we said we’re gonna pay you 7%. Yeah, well, we can’t, we can only pay you 3%. And then I bring the contract up, and I hold on. Oh, wait, right here, right here on page 16. subparagraph. b says, If you change the terms of my note, you got to buy it back. It’s called a buyback clause. Guess how many of these securities they wanted? They were going to change the interest rate on and guess how many they were going to buy back? Hmm, guess who bought a bunch of mortgage-backed securities? That be the the Fed? What do you think they bought them? Because nobody else would buy them? Now you think about that. Let’s say I’m Mr. Gold hedge fund. And I say, Hey, listen, I’m gonna sell you something equal to a treasure in a year or two later. I say, yeah. Remember that thing that was equal to a treasury a risk free return? Yeah. It’s not worth anything. Don’t you think that should be fraud?
Jason Hartman 17:34
Absolutely.
Greg Hunter 17:35
Not a single person has gone to jail. Do you know many people we sent to jail during the savings and loan scandal? About a thousand. Do you know how many people have gone to jail due to this scandal, which is about 40 or 50 times bigger? None. A Bernie Madoff.
Jason Hartman 17:47
And what’s with Mozilla? I mean, is anything gonna happen to him?
Greg Hunter 17:50
Who knows? But Bank of America, you know. They they recently stopped their foreclosures. And, you know, of course, they bought Countrywide Financial. They were plenty of, let’s just call it irregularities in the mortgage application process. And, well, you know, Bank of America was already bankrupt, they were bailed out. And Merrill Lynch, you know, had to dead meringue. In the dead, Merrill Lynch was bankrupt. They were bailed out and forced to be, you know, put together and now they have this catastrophe on top of that? This is a catastrophe for America. Well, if you add up all the the foreign wars that we’re fighting all the the future commitments and debt, and the current debt, and the deficits spiraling out of control, and now the banks can’t even collect on the collateral at whatever, 50 cents on the dollar, they can’t even go to court and collect the house? Back to your question. So what’s going to happen?
Jason Hartman 18:37
Yeah, great question. How big Okay, so yeah, inflation is certainly coming. I mean, I think we can all see that. But how, how big before you say we get into the specifics of inflation or deflation. How big would the bailout have to be?
Greg Hunter 18:50
10s of trillions. According to the Bank of International Settlements,
Jason Hartman 18:53
That’s a Zimbabwe-style inflation.
Greg Hunter 18:55
Let’s just talk about what a derivative is. Because you have to understand this to understand how fast and massive The problem is. And incidentally, this has never happened in human history.
Jason Hartman 19:03
I know.
Greg Hunter 19:04
I was at CNN, and you know, they had Fortune magazine in money and CNN Money, and I stood up in a group of people and said, hey, you’re the Bank of International Settlements says that the over the counter derivative market is this, you know, I don’t know 600 trillion or 700 trillion at the time, 600 trillion, 600 trillion, that’s 6000 billion. Okay. Some say it’s twice that, but let’s just say I mean, you know, if you if you owe me 5 million or 10 million, you can’t pay it. It’s still a mind-numbing amount of money. Okay, so let’s just use Bank of International Settlements as the Central Bank of central bankers. So I stand up in the in the room and say, Hey, guys, there’s a woman there too. The derivative market is 600 plus trillion dollars. Where’s that traders? And nobody looked at me. And I said, this is not a trick question. Where’s that traded? And they just looked at me, and I said, Wow, we’re missing a huge story. We have a $600 trillion market, and we don’t know where it’s traded. Let me tell you where it’s traded. It’s some dude calling another dude saying you can buy this. It’s a, it’s an over-the-counter. From me to you. Now, let’s understand what that means. There’s no public market. Okay, so let’s just just hold that thought there’s no public market. And let’s go to where so there is a public market, let’s say the Chicago Board of Trade. Let’s say I want to buy a bushel of corn. Can the guy selling it to me stick some ball bearings in there to make it make weight?
Jason Hartman 20:18
Not legally.
Greg Hunter 20:20
Ah, if he doesn’t have enough corn, can he stick a couple of shovelfuls of beans in there and say it’s corn and beans, but it’s here, it’s a bushel. Can you do that?
Jason Hartman 20:27
No, that would be fraud.
Greg Hunter 20:29
Why?
Jason Hartman 20:29
Well, because it’s not what you thought you were buying.
Greg Hunter 20:31
Well, but, don’t you think the Chicago Board of Trade has rules, regulations, standards,
Jason Hartman 20:36
Yes. But not the over the counter market?
Greg Hunter 20:38
Yeah. And they say, Oh, this over the Kennedys mortgages are hard to price, you betcha they are if you put them on a public exchange, you’d find that what they’re really worth because a bushel of corn is selling for, I don’t know, $8 $4 and 75 cents, and you have bid, you have asked you have price discovery, over the counter derivative market. This is what the financial regulation still didn’t do. And the reason why they didn’t do it, because they put it on a public market. And they actually had a bid ask you’d find out this stuff was worthless, or 10 cents on the dollar, or 50 cents on the dollar. Now you take a look at 600 trillion, let’s just say 10% of its bad. I think it’s way more than that. But let’s say 10%, that would be $60 trillion. The world GDP for the year. Wow, the understand how vast this problem is. Derivatives for all kinds of things. There’s interest rate swaps. There’s mortgage backed securities, there’s derivatives for credit card debt, their derivatives for student loans, there’s derivatives for HELOCs. You understand what I’m saying?
Jason Hartman 21:33
For everything. I know.
Greg Hunter 21:34
I was calling the financial manager of the Packers North Carolina, his name is Tom and I said, Tom, you have says here you have $90 million in backup. I said, Yeah, what what is that? He goes, Well, it’s mortgage-backed securities. I said, so you got to get on the phone and call some dude to sell them. There’s no public market. Pause. Yes, that’s right. He says, but we were able to look through those we got 35% loan to value at minimum. So we really got a good thing. I said, Oh, really? You really did, did you? He said yes. I said, Can you stop a homeowner from taking out a home equity line of credit on that home? Long pause. No. Understanding what he’s got in backup. He’s got something that they can take the equity out of that he has to get on the phone and try to peddle in mass to somebody you think you’ll get power money for that now? Do you think his backup is worth par? What he paid for it? The answer is no. Not back country money, especially if you don’t have clear title to you have clear title. You don’t have clear title to the houses and the security. the backing of the mortgage-backed security. You don’t have the houses? No, we’ve 40 that we have no, no.
Jason Hartman 22:38
Yeah, it’s an amazing problem. It’s there’s so much
Greg Hunter 22:42
It will cause a it is going to cause a banking calamity. It is going to cause severe currency devaluation because you’ve seen how they bail out the rich, they are going to bail out. They have bailed out the rich one of them. They got bailed. That was a Warren Buffett, Warren Buffett, I’ll just name off some of the companies that got government largeness in some form or another tarp, or the Federal Reserve took some of their assets off their books or a loan, a backup by the federal government for bonds of General Electric. Goldman Sachs is biggest holding is Wells Fargo. They let me tell you, if the government wouldn’t stepped in Berkshire Hathaway would have taken a giant hit.
Jason Hartman 23:16
Let me take a brief pause. We’ll be back in just a minute.
Announcer 23:22
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Jason Hartman 23:43
So let’s just talk about are we in, I know your answer, but I want to ask the question in a way that gives adequate weight to the deflation out there. Deflation or inflation? Now and in the future.
Greg Hunter 23:55
Well, listen. Number one, it’s not either or.
Jason Hartman 23:57
We talked about that.
Greg Hunter 23:58
Okay. It’s not either or. Who says it can’t be both at the same time.
Jason Hartman 24:01
So I say it, it can. Because I say
Greg Hunter 24:03
It has been. Yeah, right. The real estate prices as opposed to as opposed
Jason Hartman 24:07
To price a food or gas.
Greg Hunter 24:08
Yeah. And that kind of stuff. And you have yet to see the real inflation-deflation. Right now. mortgage rates just went down to an all-time low for 30. Year money is 4.27%. If you look on my site on one of the stories I did about double dips coming everywhere, you’ll find out why it’s so important for the government to push down interest rates. Now, if you want to buy a mortgage, you go to your bank, you know, Bob’s bank, and you say I want to get a mortgage and if you have your 20% down and fit all the criteria, you can get a mortgage. Then Bob takes and sells that to the government because only the government only the taxpayers would be stupid enough to loan money at 4.27%. The commercial arena cannot compete with the government and the government is is basically propping up the mortgage market. They have more than 90% Meredith Whitney says 95% banking analyst Meredith Whitney says 95% of the mortgages produced today are backstopped by the government. They are provided by the government Now, think about what happens to real estate prices. They’ve already happened. We’ve had rates going down and the properties have gone down think what happens if rates were at a normal eight or 9%? What do you think would happen to the value of real estate?
Jason Hartman 25:15
I think we’d see deflation on on real estate prices where you’ve got a lot of land in the equation. But I think we’d see rents inflate at the same.
Greg Hunter 25:23
You got it. Inflation and deflation. I think ultimately, what’s going to happen according to people like john Williams of shadow stats calm is that we could see a massive sell-off in the US dollar. Well, you know how much we import IE, and they trade oil in dollars. And the whole world is basically right now locked in a competitive devaluation spiral. They’re trying to export their way out of troubles and nobody wants to have the strong currency. And up until now, we’re having the tallest midget in the room.
Jason Hartman 25:53
Right, right. I always say we’re the best house in a bad neighborhood.
Greg Hunter 25:56
Well, I don’t know if we’re the best house at all, in lieu of the fact that we have. According to Laurence Kotlikoff, a University of Boston economist is the main line guy, this is a real guy. He says, You know what we have Enron his words, Enron style accounting, we have fraudulent accounting at the federal government and our debts and commitments really, are 200 and $2 trillion. Now you think about that.
Jason Hartman 26:19
I only count them at about 60 trillion, but
Greg Hunter 26:23
You can look it up 200 and $2 trillion. Real debt and commitment, it’s 15 times worse than what they say it is. And you think about that kind of debt and commitment. And there is no way we ever pay that off and when in the money we have today.
Jason Hartman 26:40
Thank you for listening to the creating wealth show. This is Jason Hartman, your host, and we appreciate you following the show. We have many, many episodes, hundreds of episodes, and some of the older episodes have been archived and placed in our members section. And that applies to this one. So we include a sample that’s about 25 minutes long. And then for the rest of the show, you can go to our members section at Jason hartman.com. Many of the other shows are still in their full length complete version. However, some of the shows like this one are in our members section where you can hear the show in its entirety. And again, you just need to go to Jason hartman.com. And you can get the full show there in the members section plus a whole bunch of other great members benefits and resources, whether it be documents, forms, contracts, articles, other video and audio content, just a great resource, so be sure to join as a member at Jason hartman.com and thanks again for listening to the creating wealth show.
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