In this Flashback Friday episode, Jason Hartman shares a couple of feedback from his two recent podcast episodes, the Money Merge Account program and the interview with Peter Schiff. Then, Ellen Brown joins Jason to discuss “300 Year Ponzi Scheme,” fiat currency, and the Federal Reserve. Ellen is an expert on monetary policy and the Federal Reserve, and the author of Web of Debt.

Investor 0:00
What I’ve learned is you like to mention be area agnostic is one of your commandments in that I love that. I like to look at this is also be when it comes to real estate investing, be age agnostic, who cares what age you are, you can start doing this. It 19 like you did, you could start doing this 20s you can start doing in your 50s I started my 50s.

Jason Hartman 0:21
Welcome to this week’s edition of flashback Friday, your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has hand picked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future. Enjoy.

Announcer 0:35
Please note disclaimers at end of show. Welcome to creating wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program, Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven’t thought of before and a new slant on investing fresh new approaches to America’s best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who not only talks the talk but walks the walk. He’s been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 states and 17 cities. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to financial freedom, you really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:36
Hello, and welcome to another edition of creating wealth. This is your host, Jason Hartman. And I’m glad you’re with us today. We haven’t had a show up in about a week and a half. So glad to be getting this one out. Thank you so much for continuing to listen, everybody, it looks like we have quite a following out there. And we’re happy to be here giving you the best investment advice. The most uncolored and hyped advice we can find out there at least. And you know, really trying to be impartial and serve your needs and give you good ideas that you can use. Obviously, we are ultimately in the business of investment property brokerage, and arranging referrals to the different markets in which we operate all around the United States. 39 markets now, by the way, I have to mention we opened a new market that we’re quite excited about. And that is Denver, Colorado. I’ve been looking at this market for several years now. And it’s always been a little too expensive. And the rents haven’t been good enough. But now Denver is good. And we like Denver now. We’ve been waiting patiently to do more in Colorado. And I think the time has finally arrived. We had our masters weekend last weekend. And that is a twice yearly event. Our next one should be in March. Maybe we’ll even move that up to February. It was really well done. I think we had a good event the room was packed. People said they learned a lot it started Friday evening where we played the cashflow game. And then we went all day Saturday and Sunday. And I tell you by the end of it, I was exhilarated but also exhausted. It was a long weekend. So be sure to join us for our next masters weekend. And at the Masters weekend, we had our Colorado broker fly out among many other experts, we had actually 17 experts on different areas from different real estate markets as well as different areas of law. We had two attorneys speak, you know, all of the people in the audience got their advice for a very, very low price versus the normal hourly rate. We had tax specialist speak, we talked about asset protection, saving money on interest costs, low modification, loan auditing, personal bailouts, you know, we’re all probably somewhat upset and maybe a little envious of these bailouts for the rich that are going on in Wall Street and bailouts for the irresponsible. How do we get our personal bailout?

So we entitled one segment dude, where’s my bailout? We had a whole bunch of different speakers. One of them was our Colorado broker, as I mentioned, and he flew out and did a great presentation on the Denver market and the surrounding markets. And we’re just really excited about that. So if you’re interested, go to our website. By the way, we have a new part on our website that we just launched last week. And if you go to Jason hartman.com, click on Properties. You will see the map of the US as as it was before, but you’ll also see a whole bunch of PowerPoint slideshows, and we have a really nice player for them where you can watch them and just click play and sit back and watch as the slides change. Or you can actually go and click on the PDF and download the PDF, print it email it around whatever you like. And I think that’ll be very helpful to you. We don’t have all our areas up yet obviously But we have about six or eight of them, I believe, and the Denver presentation is up there. So take a look at that. And we have an exciting show for you today, I was very fortunate to interview Ellen Brown. Ellen is the author of web of debt. And she is a frequent guest and various radio shows, I’ve heard her on the radio several times, and has a really interesting take on the 300 year Ponzi scheme that has been going on with the fractional reserve banking and central banking and just the way the whole system works. It’s it’s constantly amazing to me, the way things are handled at the highest levels of our global financial system. And how if the little guy isn’t paying attention and isn’t playing the game, right, is really in danger, there’s a real threat to their wealth. So I’m sure you’ll enjoy my interview with Alan Brown. That’s coming up here in just a couple of minutes. And also, I want to say that we had some very good presentations at the Masters weekend last weekend, and some of them were by yours truly Yes, I’ll pat myself on the back and say that we had some good presentations that I made. And I’m going to as soon as we get the audio from that, I’m going to take selected parts and put them on the podcast. So look for that on future shows, because we really wanted to present some new stuff. And I think we did and make that available for the very first people who had attended the Masters weekend. So we will be broadcasting an abridged version of some of those presentations on future shows. So you can listen in for that as well. I have been a little bit behind on the Ask Jason questions, as you know, I love to get your questions. And we haven’t had time to answer them. Because we’ve had so many guests and long interviews on the show. And next week, I’m really excited.

I’m interviewing Harry dent. He’s a big name, obviously. And many of you know who he is. So that’ll be next week that interview, not sure will broadcast it next week. But the interview is going to be next week. And also this week, I am interviewing the head of Consumer Credit Counseling, who will talk about how to handle and settle credit card debt, consumer debt, and I’m sure we’ll go into the mortgage topic as well. So I think you’ll like that. So let’s answer a couple of these ask Jason questions. First of all, one that I cannot find, but it was asked and I you know, I can’t remember the name of the listener, but I do appreciate you sending me this feedback. One of the shows we did recently was about the money merge account. And it was about how to save interest on your mortgage or any debt you have, whether it be credit card debt, home equity lines, first mortgages, whatever. And you know, this was a little bit critical, the person said that they really liked my show. And they liked listening to creating wealth and had referred friends to listen to it as well. And I appreciate you doing that. And I felt that that was a bit of a pitch for the money merge network marketing program. And let me tell you something, I am probably one of the most skeptical people you will ever meet. And I have been looking at that program for about a year and a half now. And I turned it down over and over several people approached me on it. And I did not like it. And they made some modifications to the program. And I started thinking about it and I started thinking about, we’re not into paying off mortgages, we love our debt, as long as it’s good debt, as long as it’s fixed rate debt, as long as it’s attached to good assets. And it has a negative interest rate. What I mean by negative interest rate, of course, is it’s slower than the real rate of inflation, which is the big opportunity of our day. But even if we’re borrowing at six and a half percent, and the true rate of inflation is 10, or 12%. You know, we’re getting paid to borrow and we’ve talked about that on prior shows. And that’s great. But what if we could effectively reduce our borrowing cost from six and a half percent to maybe three and a half percent, or 3%. And we still have a rate of inflation of 10 to 12%. Well, then we’re getting paid a lot more tomorrow. So I think that program is a good deal. I do think that the software is a little bit pricey. And some people have said they can do that and Excel, let me tell you something, if you think that wake up and check your thoughts there because you’re wrong, you can’t do it.

Okay, that is a very sophisticated system that is being offered. So I think it’s worth it. I finally decided I would expose it to my listeners. And again, it took me about a year and a half to come to that conclusion. So I’m pretty skeptical and I don’t like sales pitches, and I didn’t promote that. And I didn’t talk to you about it for a long, long time. Although I heard about it a while ago and my personal feeling is that you It is worth checking out. I think it can reduce your interest cost. And I think it’s a pretty reasonably good deal. So take it for what you will. That’s my opinion. Okay, so another Ask Jason, question here. This one comes from Joe Marshall. Joe, I appreciate your note. And I appreciate you being a listener. He says, I’ve been a listener to creating wealth with Jason Hartman podcast from the early days and have never written to say thank you, Jason, on a more recent podcast, you apologize for ranting and blamed it on too much coffee? Yes, I remember that one. Well, well, I had to write and say that this was one of the best episodes I have listened to. I thought I actually heard from the real Jason Hartman. And not just the company that he stands behind. I understand that some listeners would rather just hear about real estate and not the broader economy in general. But they are certainly tied together. And both need to be addressed. Please know that your commentary on the economic crisis is not going on heard. You refer to some of your guests as doom and gloom, but they are realist. And you know what, by the way, I have to comment on that. I just want to sort of balance the opinion out, because I think you’re referring to the interview with Peter Schiff a couple shows ago. And you know, I like Peter shifts philosophy, I think he’s mostly right, I think he’s about 80% or 85%. Right? You know, he’s a gold bug. I’m not a gold bug, I think gold would be a good deal if it wasn’t manipulated by central banks and other of the, you know, rich and powerful that run the world. And also, if you could rent it out, if you could finance it over 30 years at low fixed rate interests, and get tax deductions and rent it to somebody else, I think gold would be a pretty good deal, but you can’t do any of that.

So I’m not a gold bug. Again, I’ve said it before. I like their premise. But I don’t like their conclusion. So Peter Schiff, I think is great. I really like him. But you know, I think he is a little too gloomy. I’m not quite that gloomy, and most people accuse me of being too gloomy. Compared to Peter, I’m a bit of an optimist. So, you know, for whatever it’s worth. So Joe goes on to say, I listened to that show at work. And it always makes me feel better knowing that not everyone is going to just let themselves be robbed blind by this economic heist, without putting up the fight. And people are paying close attention to the grunch. Now, I had to say when I read that, Joe, I thought you meant Grinch, like the Grinch Who Stole Christmas. So I typed it into Google. And the definition of that came up. Maybe many of you don’t know this, because I certainly didn’t know what this acronym was. grunch is a acronym, which stands for gross universe cash heist, okay. And it talks about the trillions of dollars that are basically being diverted from society, which I couldn’t agree more. That’s definitely happening, Joe. So thank you for telling me about that new acronym. Anyway, he goes on to say so thank you for everything you have done. When I get better positioned from the benefits of this economic crisis and what it’s creating. In the future. I will know who to call to buy my first six pack of diversified properties in thoughts and friendship. Joe Marshall. Thanks for the note, Joe, appreciate you listening and appreciate your comments. Okay, another question comes from Ray Lopez and Ray is a KBC radio listener. Ray says Jason, I’m 30 years old, married with one child, I work at Pepsi and I’m tired of living paycheck to paycheck. I sold life insurance for three years. And I did well at it, but I couldn’t keep the fire burning and couldn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. How does someone like me who thinks that the majority of people I know can’t afford a home?

Get into this meaning, you know, investing, and get financially free without burning out like I did when I sold life insurance? Well, Ray, keep the faith look, we all started somewhere. I tell you, I started in real estate back in 1985. I got my license when I was in college. I was 19 years old. Okay. And you know, I started selling real estate. I bought my first investment property from a client actually a little condo in Huntington Beach, on Coventry lane. And then I bought my second property which was a another condo in Irvine. I lived in that one. But it really turned out to be quite an investment. Even though I lived there for 11 months, I borrowed my down payment from my grandmother. And then I paid her back and made quite a bit of money. And over the years, I just kept buying more properties and more properties and investing and I had some luck in there. I had some hard work in there and you know what, you will be surprised how quickly Time passes and how quickly wealth can build in the real estate business. If you go back and listen to the two shows we did on the refi till you die. You really see that in seven short years. You can build some significant wealth by investing in sensible properties in diversified markets. Be careful, be prudent. Use debt responsibly, but use debt because we love that and just follow the techniques we’ve outlined here for you. It’s all free. You’re in Southern California. So I hope you’ll come to one of our events. And I would love to meet you in person. Thanks for the question.

Last question before the interview with Ellen brown on the web of debt. This one comes from Adrian McMillan. Adrian says, Jason, I listened to the creating wealth podcast religiously, thank you for continuing to provide the great information. I have a few investment properties. And I’m very interested in working with Platinum properties investor network on my future purchases, one of my investment properties is in Galveston County. The property was damaged by Hurricane Ike, I am trying to navigate my way through the insurance claim process. By the way, I have to mention that we had a lawyer at the Masters weekend speak on insurance bad faith. Let me go on and read the question, then I’ll make the rest of my comments here. So I’m requesting advice on number one, how to verify I’m being treated fairly by the insurance adjuster and the insurance company. Number two, how to expedite the process of possible. You have mentioned on your podcast that your lender is your ally in this situation, how do I leverage the power of my lender, any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Well, your lender is your ally. So what I’m saying to you here is number one, Adrian, I hope you didn’t have much equity in that property. Because the higher your loan balance, the better your insurance, so to speak. In other words, your lender wants to protect their collateral. And whenever there is a claim. And whenever there’s a problem with the insurance company, you know, insurance companies love to collect premiums, but they don’t like to pay claims very much. So when you have a high loan balance, your lender wants to protect their collateral. And as such, they are going to go to bat for you and be your ally. So the first thing I would do is I would pick up the phone, I would call my lender, I would write to my lender. And I would say, Hey, I have damage to this property, I’m in trouble. And I need some help here to make sure I can keep paying on this loan that will get their attention. And you tell them who your insurance company is provide all the contact information for the adjuster, and the insurance company and also talk to your insurance broker, the person who sold you the policy and get everybody involved and have them bug that insurance company and you keep bugging the insurance company as well. And if worse comes to worse, you might have to hire an attorney. But certainly there are tons of resources out there. The legal system is riddled with cases for many, many years of insurance bad faith when insurance companies don’t want to pay claims. And you just got to make sure that you get as many allies on your side as possible. And certainly one of them is your lender. So I wish you the best in this. And I hope that you have a high loan balance because the less equity you have, the more motivated your lender will be to go to bat for you and protect their collateral. Okay, go to ask Jason section of the website at Jason hartman.com. And ask your questions. And before this goes too long, let’s go right now to the interview with Ellen Brown, I think you’ll enjoy this. So listen in.

It’s my pleasure to welcome Ellen brown to the show. She is very knowledgeable when it comes to talking about Federal Reserve monetary policy, and so forth. Ellen, how are you? Welcome to the show.

Ellen Brown 18:51
I’m fine, thank you,

Jason Hartman 18:52
good to have you. Tell us a little bit about what’s going on in our country and what’s going on with a monetary system. And I really liked how you refer to the 300 year Ponzi scheme. And that’ll maybe start us off.

Ellen Brown 19:07
Okay, well, the reason why I’ve had this sudden collapse in the market, it’s actually been going on for 300 years, the way our money comes into existence is actually based on a fraud or a Ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme, where the banks, banks create all of our money, except for coins, which are one 1,000th of the money supply. All of the rest is created as loans by banks, most people think the government creates money, but that’s not really where it comes from. So when you go to the bank and you take out a loan, they they put them they enter the money into as a deposit into your account. And they do it by double entry bookkeeping. So they have another entry that they count is a on one side it’s an asset to themselves and then the other side it’s a liability to themselves so it comes out to zero. And so they will say no, we don’t create money because our books Balance. But in fact, that deposit is spent into the economy, and that’s what becomes their money. But that means all of our money is debt. And all of this debt accrues interest and the banks create the principal, but they don’t create the interest. So you have this whole exponential curve, that is a function of compound interest where the amount of money necessary to service, the debt, that is their money supply gets larger and larger and larger. And that’s why we have an increasing debt and increasing money supply and inflation all over the world now. So with this scheme, which has gone on since the 17th century, called fractional reserve banking, grew out of the goldsmith with that scheme, we, they’ve had to find more and more debtors to, to be sucked into the bottom of the pyramid to support the creditors at the top. So they, we pretty much indebted the whole rest of the world, I shouldn’t say we it’s not us personally, it’s the private international banking system.

Jason Hartman 21:04
Every country in the world now has a central bank and a fiat currency, right. Virtually virtually every every country that is playing the game,

Ellen Brown 21:13
fairly private. I mean, almost all of them are Iran, for instance, has been nationally owned central bank, and you could make an argument that that’s one reason that they’re one of our Public Enemies. I mean, it’s a public enemy of our private banking system, because in Iran, they will in Islam, they don’t believe in interest, I think interest is sinful, they have other ways of structuring interest without calling it. It really is interest. But even so it is a threat to the Western banking system, which is all built on interest in history and so forth. We’ll

Jason Hartman 21:47
talk about that a little more, though, that’s really interesting, because I know that I believe at least, that you’re certainly not in favor of the Federal Reserve. I am not as well. So we’re in agreement there. But as I understand that, you believe that the government should control the money supply, but still have a fiat currency, is that correct?

Ellen Brown 22:04
Well, I think we’re past having anything else.

Jason Hartman 22:07
Because going back to the gold standard would be virtually impossible is what you’re saying?

Ellen Brown 22:11
Well, and the gold standard was, it was a ruse. So it was what got us into this mess. The idea that, that these paper banknotes were backed by gold when, when most of them weren’t, I mean, there was only one 10th as much gold in the bank, as, as they were banknotes supposedly drawing on it.

Jason Hartman 22:29
So there was always fractional reserve banking. Right, right.

Ellen Brown 22:31
It was always it was always a fraud. But that the easy credit, part of it was actually a good thing. The problem was, it was controlled by private bankers and the interest went bank back to the banks, and it was drawn off the top all the time. But if in Pennsylvania, they had a public credit system, which is what I think they should, they should put in place, and just let the banks collapse and don’t bail them out, or, you know, don’t, don’t change things, because they’re going to collapse of their own accord because of this quadrillion dollar, or at least depends on how you count it, but at least $180 trillion derivatives on their books, they have to come collapse. But anyway, so it just let the banks go do their own private thing, but set up a public credit system, so we can unfreeze the credit that is now frozen. They’re doing that anyway, the Federal Reserve is doing it. The thing that supposedly was responsible for this dramatic reversal in the market was that the Fed stepped up with this lending window for virtually anybody to use for their short term loans there, you know, the short term paper sure that they use for their to pay payroll. So, so the federal and the federal government, I mean, the Federal Reserve has never done that before. They’re they’re stepping way outside the parameters that are normally considered, you know, with their area of what they have control. It was supposedly, originally they only went to their member banks. And then they expanded that as an emergency measure. I mean, there’s there are a couple of clauses in the Federal Reserve Act that say that they can and in exigent circumstances they can lend to? Well, first, they expanded it to non member financial institutions, for instance, AIG and Bear Stearns,

Jason Hartman 24:22
right, certainly not banks that are part of the Federal Reserve System is what you’re saying.

Ellen Brown 24:26
Right? Right. So they expanded it that far, and now they’re expanding it to every sort of company.

Jason Hartman 24:31
So the interesting thing here is, of course, that is very inflationary with all of these actors. I mean, the Fed is becoming such an activist organization, and they are just pumping money into the system like crazy. Well, the problem

Ellen Brown 24:45
is they’re getting their money from the Treasury, which is us. So we the taxpayers are supposedly on the hook for all this money that they’re lending to. I mean, actually, it’s not so bad if they’re lending it to GM and things that are actually producing things. But still we the taxpayers are on the hook. So it seems to me that a better system would be for credit to originate with the government. But but it’s still credit, because it goes out as a loan. I mean, we need loans right now we’re desperately short of credit. And that’s why they’ve done this. So it’s not inflationary in that sense that you’re making loans, because those are loans that businesses can’t even operate if they can’t do their meet their payrolls. And they’ve relied on those for for decades, and now suddenly, that’s been shut off, because the banking system is all screwed up. The Federal Reserve is doing it by putting us in debt, we the taxpayers, wit, and the Federal Reserve is a Private Banking Corporation. I mean, we have no control over what they do. But they just report every few months or whatever quarterly, I think or whatever it is, they report that that’s all it says in the Federal Reserve Act that they have to report to Congress. And so the controller is that we just wait to hear what what it is they’ve done, and then everybody rushes out and invest accordingly. So So as long as they’re virtually going to be the bank of the country anyway. I mean, that’s the way it’s going over there nationalizing all these banks or buying equity and banks. But they’re only half nationalizing. I mean, they’re still letting the CEOs control. Well, first of all, they take huge salaries and bonuses, or I guess they’re gonna put some cap on that.

Jason Hartman 26:27
But it’ll, it’ll that’ll be abused. I mean, we know that, you know, that won’t really come true, of course,

Ellen Brown 26:32
and they can still use the money, there’s no, there’s no requirement that they take this money that we’re investing in these companies, and these banks, and, and use them for loans, which is the whole idea to get the credit market going again, they can use that money to clean up their books, and their books can’t be cleaned up. I mean, it’s impossible to wipe out the credit default swaps that are on their books, without bankrupting the taxpayers, in the meantime, so. So they can still go bankrupt in the end. But what they can do is clean up their stock enough that they can make out with it, you know, make off with settle in South America somewhere, you know, I think what they’re doing is just bailing out of a sinking ship, trying to preserve as much of their profits as they can. Well, what

Jason Hartman 27:16
I see happening is really, really scary. In my opinion, I see this huge transfer of wealth going on, into in a consolidation in amongst the very wealthy, it seems like the world’s wealth is being pulled into private vaults. And that is definitely not benefiting the middle class. And in fact, it’s dramatically hurting the middle class, because this bailout, I don’t think the government will make a profit on it. I don’t think the government will get its money back. And that’s inflationary to all of us. Do you agree with that?

Ellen Brown 27:48
Totally.

Jason Hartman 27:49
So this will be nearly a trillion dollars down the drain. And it will really enrich certain very wealthy people and companies that are on the insider’s game, Goldman Sachs, of course, being one of them. And we’re going to see the rest of us get hurt through inflation by this

Ellen Brown 28:07
and by by interest rates on the federal debt that are going to be so high that at some point, they’re going to take over the whole debt. I mean, we won’t be able to be paying anything but interest. Yeah, exactly. Well, default, although we can’t one thing about because our debt, turn dollars can’t really default, what we can do is drive it into hyperinflation, because they’ve always got the power to print the dollars to pay this thing off.

Jason Hartman 28:28
And the real benefit we have there, and the reason the world still seems to be playing along is, number one, we’re the world’s reserve currency is the dollar. And I don’t know how long that will stay that way. I’d love to get your take on that. Any thoughts? Well, they’re definitely switching over. We’re not the sole reserve currency. Many countries are trading among themselves without dollars, right in other currencies, of course, and many people and it’s sort of been a funny thing to watch. About a year ago in Amsterdam, the exchange houses wouldn’t accept dollars, they wanted euros, at least at that time. And then GSL, the famous supermodel wanted her pay in euros, not dollars. And, you know, we’re starting to see little signs of this all around. And, of course, OPEC, they want to get off the dollar as well. But when you talk to someone about this subject of inflation, personally, I believe we’re in a period and we’re going to be facing a lot more of it in the future of rampant monetary inflation. Well, we seem to be having asset deflation. Do you agree? And if so, or if not, can you smoke out your thoughts on that a little bit?

Ellen Brown 29:33
I think it’s manipulated. It would first of all, it was driven artificially, I mean, gold, silver, oil, food, they were all driven way, way up by speculation. I mean, it was a huge pump and dump scheme really. And then it was all the plug was pulled in July, when intentionally in order to turn things around. That’s when gold was shooting through the roof and the dollar was plunging and that the Federal Reserve cut together with the central banks of Europe and Asia, and they all bought dollars. And then that drove the dollar up and it made other currencies weaker. And, and they trashed the price of gold and brought down oil and you know, they can manipulate now, Paulson’s get $700 billion. So he can do whatever he wants with. It’s pretty. Who knows what he’s doing. He’s visually printing federal debt. We know that. And nobody’s really can, as far as I know, nobody’s really overseeing what, what he’s doing with it. So I don’t know if you noticed, gold plunged yesterday, by $60, like in the space of a few minutes. Right. And absolutely nothing happened to cause that. I mean, if anything, it should have been going the other way.

Jason Hartman 30:47
It’s because our new fourth branch of government, you know, the plunge protection team and Paulson and his gang seem to be just interfering in the stock market in the commodities market dramatically, right?

Ellen Brown 30:58
While the old idea is to hold commodities down, so you don’t want to go to investment. Historically, people have fled to gold and silver when when others when the stock market goes bad. So in order to prop the stock market up, they have to make everything else like that. There’s no other alternative. It’s better. But it’s no longer capitalism. I mean, it’s enough to make, I’m ready to pull all my money out.

Jason Hartman 31:25
Well, where would you go? What would you be doing with your money? I mean, see, that’s the problem with precious metals. They’re a flight to quality type investment, but they’re subject to so much manipulation. And the question you have to ask yourself is how long can they continue to manipulate them? And so what do you think about that?

Ellen Brown 31:42
Well, they certainly been doing it for decades. Oh, yeah. And Paul Volcker said that his big mistake, and that was in 1980, was not suppressing the price of gold. And I think they’ve been doing it ever since.

Jason Hartman 31:54
And Volcker was sort of a tough character, you know, he was willing to let the economy take its medicine and break the back of inflation kind of traditionally, in that mindset. Well, what do you think of the future of gold and silver prices? How do you see it?

Ellen Brown 32:10
Well, they’re, you know, you can’t get gold and silver anymore, you have to wait for a month? Well, for the physical stuff. Yeah, the real, the real price of gold is going up and up.

Jason Hartman 32:19
Well, I just talked to a gold dealer today, the premium seem to be going up or the spot price is low. So if you want to buy a gold Eagle, your premium was almost $100. Whereas just a year ago, it was about $30. So whatever the spot price is, because it’s so hard to get, they are saying that they you know, they have to just charge a big premium. And so it’s this, this sort of disconnect between spot price and the physical market for these

Ellen Brown 32:47
clear sign of manipulation. Right. But it’s so blatant, it’s almost like, well, I remember back in January, when there was a big stock market crash. And Hillary Clinton said, Well, she thought that the plunge protection team should he she called it the President’s Working Group on financial markets should get in there and prop the market back up, as if that was their job. And everybody knew that which, I mean, she was kind of letting the cat out of the bag, because people don’t usually talk about it. But But now, it’s like, it’s expected and most people I suppose, are with the regular stocks. And so they think that’s fine. But it just means that you don’t have any certainty in anything you do. It’s that there’s another player in there that somebody is making a lot of money with all these market manipulation,

Jason Hartman 33:32
right is it’s sort of like a new version of Adam Smith’s invisible hand. The problem is the invisible hand. Now is the government with an unlimited printing press. Isn’t that amazing, though? Yeah.

Ellen Brown 33:44
connected to a big player hedge fund?

Jason Hartman 33:47
It sure is. I so want to just make sure I get a clear take on this because we kind of diverge a little bit your opinion, if you have one, on the future of gold prices and silver prices, for example.

Ellen Brown 34:02
Well, they should shoot way up. Okay. And the question is, how long? If you have 700 billion to play with, you could probably manipulate them down for a long time.

Jason Hartman 34:12
Do you think they’ll go down further? I mean, there’ll be more manipulation, right.

Ellen Brown 34:16
I bet it next time they get up to 1000. They’ll push them back down again. That’s just

Jason Hartman 34:20
unbelievable that they can do this but I think you’re seeing that disconnect like we talked about between the the spot price and the the real price, which is the real market. So good point clear sign of manipulation there.

Ellen Brown 34:31
I heard someone say I can’t remember who it was. It was an attack show that I’m heavily diversified. I have some in the matches, some under the floorboards in the backyard.

Jason Hartman 34:41
Yeah, right. Exactly. So that’s why I like rental properties because they’re subject to relatively little manipulation whenever you can deal in anything in the real economy versus the smoke and mirrors economy of Wall Street and Washington. I think you’re better off of course, you know if people can obtain financing for real estate That’s a manipulation in a way, right? tax laws. There are factors, no question, but I want as little outside manipulation as possible in any investment I have. And it seems like the government really has a very vested interest in propping up the dollar. And every government has a vested interest in propping up their fiat currency. And they also because the stock market is really a fiat currency also stock, you know, stock certificates, electronic stocks, they have a very vested interest in propping that up, too. I mean, what is more important to our government and to our central bank? Is it seeing inflation be under control? Is it seeing the stock market reach new highs? Is it seeing the dollar be strong? You know, to me, that answer is they want to prop up Wall Street. And they don’t seem to care much about anything else. But what are your thoughts,

Ellen Brown 35:54
right, and it’s that Roman circus of today, where 50% of the population has been sucked into the stock market, because bonds, the interest rate is so low that you can’t really put your money away for old age and bonds and expect to pay pay for your old age unless I mean, you have to have at least whatever six or $700,000 to be able to live on what you can make on bonds, depending on your

Jason Hartman 36:20
lifestyle, but anyway. And after inflation, those bonds are just being destroyed in value. So

Ellen Brown 36:25
yeah, so people feel compelled to gamble in this in the stock market. And the Dow only has 30 stocks in it. So it’s actually fairly easy, easily manipulated, they can drive the futures up every morning, that’s very easy to do. It doesn’t necessarily hold but they can they can manipulate a few big stocks, and then that’s enough to to get the ball rolling in a particular direction. So it seems to me that they use that as a measure Well, before when the Dow was doing well, you know, year ago, it would almost broke 14,000. And they would point to that, and they would say what economic problems, look at the Dow it’s doing wonderfully. And that was that was the standard of how the economy was saying. But of course, everybody knew that a lot of people were out of work and companies were folding, things weren’t really doing so well.

Jason Hartman 37:13
And when you adjust those new record highs for official inflation rates, you see that they’re not too spectacular at all, and then adjust them for real inflation rates. And it’s really depressing. And now take them down.

Ellen Brown 37:26
Right, yeah, man, the downside?

Jason Hartman 37:29
I know. So it’s really scary when you look at that. I mean, there’s a lot of paper wealth has no doubt disappeared from the system. But it seems like all the insiders are still doing fine, you know, with their big salaries and their golden parachutes and so forth. What do you think the real rate of inflation is?

Ellen Brown 37:47
I think, do you know john Williams say? Yes, I believe so. The last I looked at was something like 15%. But that was a while back.

Jason Hartman 37:56
So do you. I mean, you agree, because about 15% or so?

Ellen Brown 38:00
Oh, it’s definitely way higher than what the official numbers are? Yeah. And you can tell just by going to the grocery store?

Jason Hartman 38:07
Sure. No doubt, in my opinion, is I would have said about 12%. So I’m close. Yeah,

Ellen Brown 38:13
as well. And gas, you know, is dropped down, because it’s sort of a showpiece. But I haven’t seen the price of eggs dressing down.

Jason Hartman 38:20
Yeah. So inflation is 15%. But gas is getting a little cheaper. I mean, of course, it’s cheaper off of ridiculous high. Some things are getting less expensive. Certainly stocks are less expensive. Certainly land values are lower in most places. How do you reconcile that? I mean, our listeners have trouble with that, because I know, we get questions on it all the time.

Ellen Brown 38:41
Well, prices are going up. One reason they have to go up is because the whole money supply is created at a debt, you have to always be covering this interest. So you have to continually be raising your prices. So it’s not necessarily a sign. It’s not because things are necessarily more scarce. And then there’s the speculation problems. So speculators are driving up the price of food around the world. And it’s not because people are eating more, or the population growth is nothing like that the increase in the price of rice last spring, for instance. What’s driven it up is speculation or money. I mean, you have you don’t have more people competing for the same goods driving the price up what you have is more money competing for the same goods. And so that money in Well, in the case of commodities right now, it was the hot money that came out of the real estate market when it was no longer such a great investment. It had to go somewhere. And so commodities look like the next best thing. So everybody fled to a commodities but of course, that’s what the plunge protection team had looked at and said, Well, this is getting out of hand and so they crashed the commodities market but but that’s not a good thing either, because then you have human beings who are in control of markets behind the scenes. And there’s such a great room there for them to make huge profits for themselves. They know which way they’re manipulating things. And we don’t. It’s very frustrating if you try to try to invest reasonably,

Jason Hartman 40:13
yeah, no question about it. I think someone needs to sue the government for manipulating the markets. I mean, people are losing real money because of this. investors who bought copper investors who bought oil investors who bought corn, they’re, they’re losing money, because of the government’s really somewhat secret market manipulation. I can’t fathom that in a capitalist society where we supposedly have free markets. It’s unbelievable.

Ellen Brown 40:41
Yeah. And people have even come to expect that. But I think that our real leverage, I mean, if we do have to get organized in some way, and that’s the only way we can stand up to it. The idea that electing one of two political candidates is going to solve the problem. I think everybody’s seen through that by now. I mean, neither candidate tends to be apprised of the real issues. So so where if we want to have some leverage what we need to do, I think, is some massive lawsuit. That was that would be something that would that would get some attention

Jason Hartman 41:15
lawsuits against the government?

Ellen Brown 41:17
Well, you could there are a number of different types of lawsuits, you could bring Sure. You could have homeowners, you know, subprime homeowners have a good defense to foreclosure if, because often the trustees on their on these mortgage backed securities don’t have the paperwork to prove that they they have standing to foreclose. So those that that’s a lot. I mean, you could have millions of people who could stand up to their foreclosures. I mean, I’m not saying that’s good thing. A lot of people would get out of mortgages that they should definitely be paying, etc.

Jason Hartman 41:52
I think that’s going to continue to happen anyway, though, right.

Ellen Brown 41:55
Yeah. And it is a form of financial collapse. So if you and then of course, the investors have been cheated. All over the world investors have been cheated others people that thought they were investing in safe triple A securities are pension funds, say they’re only allowed to invest in triple A securities. And that triple A seal was a fraud. It was based on derivatives that that were a form of insurance, that is not insurance, and they don’t have the ability to pay up. So they have a good lawsuit. They could have a lawsuit against the trustees, which are the banks, you know, that set up these mortgage backed securities.

Jason Hartman 42:29
Right. I certainly you can’t trust Moody’s for your future. Right, because Moody’s did the regulation,

Ellen Brown 42:34
Moody’s could have a claim. I mean, everybody has been cheated here, in one way or another. So if you had a lot of losses flying, of course, nobody trusts a court system, either. But but at least you have many judges all over the place. It’s not like you’re going to

Jason Hartman 42:49
subject to one particular

Ellen Brown 42:51
Yeah, the head of the Federal Reserve or something or, or to your congressman, to get justice, at least you can go right into a court.

Jason Hartman 42:57
Okay, so that’s good talking about action plans. So litigation, what else can we do to stand up to this tyranny that’s going on?

Ellen Brown 43:05
Well, the more information that gets out there, I think the better because outrage is the first step toward changing things. Right now we don’t have we’re still at the stage where people are blaming themselves or thinking they made a bad investment, or Oh, darn, I should have put it here instead of there, but it’s not really their fault. And the more they wake up to that and realize that they’ve been cheated, that the whole system is,

Jason Hartman 43:29
is fixed.

Ellen Brown 43:30
Yeah, exactly. It’s Rick.

Jason Hartman 43:32
Right? Yeah, it is. Right. So what is your opinion on the future of the Dow and the s&p? I mean, where do you think we’ll two years from now? Where do you think we’ll see those numbers? Any ideas?

Ellen Brown 43:42
I think they’ll go lower. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 43:45
And you know, what scares me the most about the stock market, is the fact that we’re in this position where we’re seeing them go lower. And by the way, I do agree with you that they will go lower. When this starts to sort of work its way through the system, there’s always a business cycle to things, ultimately, then we have the baby boomer retirement issue, where we’re going to see the entitlements being paid. And then at the same time, we’re going to see the boomers sucking money out of the stock market, and neither spending it which you know, of course, most of the spending is in the s&p. But I think that because this is a Ponzi scheme, it’s more important that wall street have shareholders than customers, by customers, I mean, consumers of products the companies make. So 2012 You know, that’s what’s going to happen. We’re gonna start seeing all the baby boomers taking money out, and we’re in for it. Right, a further collapse. Do you agree with that?

Ellen Brown 44:38
Well, it certainly could be disastrous if it continues to go the way it is. But that’s why I think we need a totally new system and I think it could be fixed. What, what you could do what should be done, I think, is in the 1930s, Hoover set up something called the reconstruction Finance Corporation, which it was an It was a government Banks basically was set up to make loans to the banks. And it was supposed to bail out the banks. But of course, it didn’t work. Because the banks didn’t need more loans. They were drowning in loans, what they needed was some customers. And so Roosevelt came along and use that same mechanism, and funded things that would put people back to work, building roads and bridges and dams. And, you know, all those projects that they did in the New Deal. And then they use the same same mechanism, that reconstruction Finance Corporation to fund World War Two. And so they set up all this tools that that would then went on to make us a great industrial power for the rest of the century. But the only thing wrong with Roosevelt, that particular system was that they borrowed the money that they lent. So it seems to me what you could do, since banks create the money they lend out of nothing, and the money they lend is only backed by the full faith and credit of the United States, the United States could set up its own lending system, its own credit system, just ignore the banks, let them go bankrupt, don’t bail them out. And don’t try to Don’t try to suppress them, just let them go and set up your own credit system that would then issue credit to state and local government for half a percent interest or something very, very marginal, to pull them out of there, they’re all going bankrupt.

Jason Hartman 46:18
So California, where we live, you live in California, I believe I’m in Orange County. And so we’re probably going to see our own state go bankrupt soon. Right?

Ellen Brown 46:26
Right. So half of the cost of everything now is interest. So if you made like 0% interest loans, or half a percent or interest loans, to state local government, they could be doing things well, for instance, they could buy up, they could do low cost housing or buy a subprime, they could fix all these neighborhoods that are falling apart, and we rent them to people, and then the rent would go back to pay off the loan. So it’s not like you’re just issuing money and issuing money. It’s alone. And and it’s supposed to come back to the to the issuer, which would be the federal government. But the federal government doesn’t have to borrow and go further into debt to find the money to make these loans. It credit starts with the federal government. That’s what I think that’s that’s the definition of credit, the full faith and credit of the United States, instead of the Treasury borrowing from the Federal Reserve, which is a Private Banking Corporation, and the money is initiated at the Federal Reserve. The money shouldn’t miss it with the government, the government right now print all the money they need, but they print it in the form of bonds, which are debt, they print these little pink pieces of paper, and they call them bonds. And then they trade them with the green pieces of paper printed by the Federal Reserve called Federal Reserve Notes course, most of it is just created electronically. But you know, that’s the basic principle. And so the money that the government is printing as bonds, might as well be printed as federal as us notes or whatever, as dollars, because it would not be any more inflationary than printing bonds, because those bonds are never ever paid off. That debt just grows and grows and grows, and that money goes out into the system. And it’s just rolled over and rolled over. And that is our money supply. But it’s a it’s an interest bearing money supply that we the people have to service all the time. And it’s holding this weight over our heads that we that we owe this debt to someone. Whereas if it were just issued outright, you would have the same amount of money in the money supply. But you would not have a debt, and you would not be interest bearing it would be a permanent money supply. All right, you know, it’d be out there until it was paid back for some reason.

Jason Hartman 48:42
So my question is, are you just making the Federal Reserve federal, then

Ellen Brown 48:46
that would work? You could do it either way, you know, instead

Jason Hartman 48:48
of it being private?

Ellen Brown 48:50
Right? Or you can nationalize it.

Jason Hartman 48:52
Either one or so you’re saying that a nationalized Federal Reserve is better than a private one. And I agree with you on that. But we’re letting politicians control the money supply rather than private bankers, it seems like either one of them, is going to end up in all sorts of crockery. And well, the

Ellen Brown 49:09
politicians are already controlling actors. They’re the ones that issue the debt. But they’re at the mercy of the bankers. I mean, the main bankers are basically calling the shots. So if they, they should be at the mercy of the people, it should be the people calling the shots and overseeing this whole process. So if it was just our elected officials issuing it as loans, that would come back to the government. They wouldn’t even have to, it wouldn’t even have to involve taxes. Interesting. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 49:39
I agree on the first step, it just seems like we’re, we’re going to have the same problem. It’ll just be maybe a little more accountable and less of it,

Ellen Brown 49:47
and we won’t we won’t owe interest on it, and we won’t have a big debt over.

Jason Hartman 49:51
Well, that’s true. We’re not paying the interest to private bankers. Exactly. When it’s in federal. You mentioned that about Iran, which I was not aware of at the beginning of our talk today. You said that Iran does have a central bank, but it’s a government central bank. Is that the distinction?

Ellen Brown 50:06
It’s owned by the government? I mean, they are making steps toward complying with Western banking principles.

Jason Hartman 50:13
But they have terrible inflation in Iran. I mean, I heard it’s like 20 23%.

Ellen Brown 50:18
I read that that was not true. Yeah, that, you know, a lot of Western sources make things look bad. And

Jason Hartman 50:28
could be the only thing I’ll comment on that as I do have an Iranian friend, who had put a bunch of money in Iranian banks, and the interest being paid was really high. But the debasement of the currency was higher than the interest being paid. So it apparently didn’t really work out. Isn’t that result to be a very good deal?

Ellen Brown 50:48
Yeah. Well, and they’re, they’re being boycotted, and so forth. I mean, it’s not easy to manage an economy all by yourself when you’re that small, right? China did it but China was huge. And so they managed to, you know, they were blockaded, or boycotted by the rest of the world for years. And that’s where they kind of got their strength. They, they developed on their own, the same as the United States did when, back in colonial days, we didn’t have anyone to rely on for that. So we developed internally,

Jason Hartman 51:20
right, we became rugged individuals, right? So a couple more things here, you know, the government raise the debt ceiling a few weeks ago, so think it went from 9 trillion with a T to 11 trillion, because of this bailout, they had to raise it. And we have this huge debt. And I think this giant debt, plus all the entitlements coming at us are going to create a lot of additional inflation. Is there anybody in Washington, or anybody anywhere with any real plan? What will the government ultimately do? Just will the US government just default on all the money it owes to other countries and go bankrupt? In essence, could that happen? What would happen? How does this debt ever get repaid?

Ellen Brown 52:03
Wow, it can’t be in it in New York the way they’re going now. But I think there’s a solution to that, too. When a debt comes, do we have the power to print dollars. So when the debt comes, do they always pay off the bonds, they never default on their bonds. But what they do is then they roll it over with more bonds, you know, they raised more money by issuing yet one more bonds. But and if if nobody will buy the bonds, then the federal reserve funds them by just printing money. So So it seems to me that what they could do is just pay off the bonds as they come due. And don’t roll them over. I mean, who’s to even know whether they rolled this plant over not to pay him in the ordinary way. And then the debts just gone?

Jason Hartman 52:49
Pay them by printing more dollars.

Ellen Brown 52:51
Right? And who’s to know, you just you just put it in the account, you just write up and that that’s what they’ve done that before where they actually have called bonds. And because the interest was too high, so all they did was they sent out this notice, that said, this bond series, whatever ever, is now being recalled, and you will be paid, you know, pay you the face amount of the of the bond, and but the point is, you’re not going to get any more interest from us, you know, go invest your money somewhere else.

Jason Hartman 53:20
So we would say it was so the US government, for example, would say that to China?

Ellen Brown 53:25
Well, it would just the bond would come by and issue it come due, and then they just write into the Chinese account and say, your bond has been paid in full. But what we’re not renewing this series, so go invest it somewhere else.

Jason Hartman 53:38
So don’t you think, though, that the bond holder would understand that there is a lot of money being printed just to do that. And, and that’s what happens

Ellen Brown 53:47
anyway, they do. They do pay off the debt, the bonds, but then they, then they allow them to roll it over into a new series. And it’s, it’s only a matter of, of an entry and accounting entry. It’s not like you even have to run the printing press.

Jason Hartman 54:03
Yeah, interesting. Okay. What do you see is the future of the dollar? And I mean, do you see an arrow coming? You know, there. There’s a lot of talk about that. Now, it used to sound really conspiratorial and outlandish, but I’m hearing about it more and more. Well, I

Ellen Brown 54:19
think that that’s definitely definitely a plan, but I don’t think they can pull it off. I don’t think the us is that strong that Canada. It’s not, it’s not to the benefit of Canada or Mexico.

Jason Hartman 54:31
Now, why isn’t it to the benefit of Canada or Mexico?

Ellen Brown 54:34
Well, Canada right now has it? they own their central bank? I mean, they don’t they still borrow from it, which is makes no sense but but at least the central bank is technically a government bank, nationally on banked enough to end with the Fed Federal Reserve would be the head of this whole system, no doubt. I mean, their ideas to to bring in Canada and Mexico to feed us oil that we don’t have ourselves. Well. That’s thinking Half the Canadian Senate.

Jason Hartman 55:01
What about Mexico?

Ellen Brown 55:02
I wouldn’t think it’s going to help them either. I mean, we want them as their vessels.

Jason Hartman 55:06
Yeah. Do you believe we’re, I mean, I’m sure you probably believe we’re in a recession, I think we have been for about a year and a half, two years, do you think we’re in a depression or on the verge of one?

Ellen Brown 55:17
I do. And, but it could be a good thing, because it’s only when systems break down, that you had the possibility of putting in a better system. And we’ve been in a pretty oppressed system for a long time for from most people. I mean, now you have, both parents have to work to pay off the mortgage, and even then they can’t do it. Now they’re defaulting, etc. So our lifestyle, it’s gotten more and more difficult from for your average middle class person than it was, then it was even, like, when I was a child, my dad managed to pay off the mortgage and, you know, support us all. And my mom didn’t work.

Jason Hartman 55:54
I agree. And I think we’re going to see that standard of living diminish even further, for most Americans, especially those with savings, or equity in real estate or money in the stock market and bonds because it’s all denominated in dollars, and that dollar value is declining dramatically. And I think we’ll see further decline.

Ellen Brown 56:16
I’ve heard that things aren’t so bad, and depression, in some ways, because people have a lot more time to read if they don’t have jobs. And I mean, assuming you can,

Jason Hartman 56:26
well, you are a real optimist, are you?

Ellen Brown 56:29
Well, I just think we have to change the system. And when enough people are out of work and are outraged, we will change the system. What you could do, for instance, in, say, in Michigan,

Jason Hartman 56:41
so a very bad economy, like

Ellen Brown 56:43
a bad economy is somewhere where people are looking for solutions. Actually, I have to give a lecture there soon enough, when thinking about Michigan, the

Jason Hartman 56:50
first thing they could do is d unionize if you ask me and bring some business back to Michigan, but go ahead?

Ellen Brown 56:55
Well, I’m thinking of how you could bring business back would be to have state owned banks, that a state can own a bank, you know, I mean, they do have such things, state banks, but state bank could then issue dollars in the same way their private bank does, you know, issue credit, all the loans that banks create are created and nothing will have the state bank, create loans that are nothing for state purposes. And, and lend it to the state for all the things that Michigan thinks they don’t have the money to do. And then I’m going to be alone, and it won’t be paid back. But But all that all that credits, if they think they don’t have they could easily create this with their own state banking system.

Jason Hartman 57:38
Please, I agree with all of your philosophies until you get to the part where you just seem to have a lot of faith in government. And I think that’s largely what got us into this mess, you know, a state owned

Ellen Brown 57:50
government hasn’t had enough power. They’ve been crippled by a corporate tax issue that has control Oh, I took over 100 years ago did no question at a real government for a long time.

Jason Hartman 58:02
Well, in a sense, I do agree with you there. I mean, as much of a capitalist as I like to think I am, I do believe that the corporatocracy is running the government, essentially. And they’re using the government is like a big vacuum cleaner to just vacuum up tax revenue and make regulations that help the big corporatocracy, and that’s why I don’t like big and I don’t like unreal, by unreal, I mean, smoke and mirrors games, like Wall Street, or central banks, etc. You know, the real economy is when I trade with you, and we both benefit from the trade. That is the most real thing out there. If you need a place to rent, and you rent my place, that is the real economy, we’re engaging in commerce that benefits both of us. You know, if you need a widget, and I sell you my widget, and the widget improves your life, it’s all good, that can’t be manipulated very much. The problem is, all of the money has been sucked out of the real economy, and it’s going to Wall Street and it’s all centralized, too much control in Washington on Wall Street.

Ellen Brown 59:01
Well, it seems to me though, to have a capitalism that works, you have to have this umbrella of a system that protects, protects the weak, basically. So you have to have rules, you have to have a legislature, whatever judiciary, you have to have police and so forth. So So really, all money is, is like you say an agreement between people that, you know, labor want, somebody wants somebody else’s labor, and then they they pay them with a little receipt, acknowledging they receive value, and then that person can use that receipt, acknowledging a certain amount of value to buy something else that he needs. But you need a system that enforces all those agreements. And that is what the full faith and credit is the United States means. It means that you can take your little agreement or let’s say, say you’re between what banks do is basically be the middleman for the seller wants his money now and the buyer doesn’t have it. So the viruses I’ll pay over time. And the bank says, well, we’ll take the risk that maybe you won’t pay, we’ll pretend to have advanced this money to the seller, although we’re not really advancing real money, we’re just going to write it into his account. Because it’s really just a liability on our own books to ourselves. And then you pay us interest for us taking the risk that maybe you won’t pay, pay it back. But the problem is, that the bank then is taking taking much more money in in the form of interest and scooping it off the top. And so the system ultimately had to break down mathematically. But if you had, you could have a that be a public function, deposits and transferring funds from one person to another writing checks and so forth, and making advancing credit between people. So so then you have this government, the purpose of the government then would be to enforce to make the rules to make sure it’s fair, like we need things like Glass Steagall, and all those things are repealed. I mean, it’s true that corporate corporations are passing laws in their favor. But they’ve also gotten rid of all the laws that are in the favor of, you know, this small, small business and Sir, this little people, we ordinary people. So anyway, so you need the legislature to make the rules that are fair. And hopefully you have a democratic government where, where you actually make fair rules, and then you have a judiciary that will enforce the rules and police that will do garnishment, and all those things if you need it, and bankruptcy laws to let people off the hook, so they don’t have to go to jail for not paying if they’re sick or something like that. So you have this whole system of protections in place that ensures a fair, fair race, and then you can have competition within that umbrella. fair competition.

Jason Hartman 1:01:54
Fair enough. I think that you know, largely, I just think that I like a little more free market than that. But I think what you say is better than what we have now. I will definitely give you that. goodwill. Any thoughts in closing, Ellen?

Ellen Brown 1:02:08
Well, I’m just writing on how the free market is dead.

Jason Hartman 1:02:13
I agree with you that it is dead,

Ellen Brown 1:02:15
that we need to do something to get it back. That we need to take the first thing we have to do is take back our government.

Jason Hartman 1:02:21
Well, that’s definitely true. What do you think that’s ever possible, though, with everybody being bought and paid for in Washington, I

Ellen Brown 1:02:27
wouldn’t say it’s impossible just by voting for one of the two major political now the

Jason Hartman 1:02:32
voting, everybody gets so worked up about, you know, voting for McCain or Obama. And either way, in my opinion, they’re both status through two versions of the same kind of thing. And it seems as though that’s all we get every election when it comes to a president. Well, I’d love to talk to you a little bit more about that. You’ve got some interesting thoughts there on a future show. And Ellen Brown, thank you so much for being on the show. You have a website, I believe.

Ellen Brown 1:02:54
Yes, it’s web of debt.com. And my book on this subject is with us debt.

Jason Hartman 1:03:01
And it’s an interesting read. So I’d recommend it to all our listeners. Thanks so much for being on the show. I hope you’ll join us again.

Ellen Brown 1:03:06
Nice second,

Jason Hartman 1:03:08
Attention agents, brokers and mortgage people. Do you know that we cooperate? Do you know that our network is an open system that you can refer clients and outsource your investor clients to us and receive passive income? It’s a really great opportunity. All you have to do is register your clients at Jason hartman.com. And tell them to attend one of our live events or live educational seminars, listen to our podcast, go to the website and request our free CD at Jason hartman.com. And if they invest with us, per the terms listed on the website, you will get a referral fee. We have lots of agents, brokers and mortgage people that receive surprise referral fees that they weren’t even expecting, they get a check in the mail. And they are just happily happily surprised. It’s a nice extra supplement to your income. So be sure to take advantage of our broker cooperation. Agents are welcome. We cooperate with outside people, and we’d love to help you with your investor clients. Hey, I just wanted to announce a couple of quick things for you. If you are able to come to one of our live events, we would love to see you and meet you in person. We’ve had people fly in from all over the US for them. So hopefully you can join us for some of those events. I wanted to mention to you that we have a new offering a free CD, a free audio CD that you will really really like we’ve had so many people that have given us really good comments about them. And you can go to our website at Jason hartman.com. And just fill out a little quick web form. And you can either download it or you can have the physical CD mailed to you in the postal mail, but get the free CD, especially if you are a new listener you need this. And if you’re a regular listener and you’ve listened to all the Other old shows, you don’t need the CD so much, but it’ll be a nice review for you either way, but if you’re a new listener, you definitely want to go to Jason hartman.com and request the free CD. Remember that Platinum properties investor network has moved. We are in our beautiful new office in Costa Mesa, California. 555 Anton sweet 150 in Costa Mesa, California, nine to six to six. And we’re right by world famous South Coast Plaza, so come in for a visit and a little shopping. Also, we just uploaded another video podcast. And I’d highly recommend that you subscribe to that there’s some stuff that just lends itself better to video than audio. If you want to see what’s on that subscribe to it, you can go to Jason hartman.com. If you use iTunes or an iPod and you’re an apple person, then you can go to the iTunes Store, type in Jason Hartman and two podcasts will come up the video podcast and the audio podcast. And you’re probably already if you’re listening a subscriber to the audio podcast. So make sure you get yourself a free subscription to the video podcast as well. And this particular one that we just loaded in the video podcast is about naked short sales. And what goes on with this short sale and manipulation of the stock market. It’s a very interesting report from Bloomberg News. And I think you’ll really learn a lot from that so be sure to tune in and watch that. Be sure to see appropriate disclaimers and disclosures on our website at Jason hartman.com. Remember that we are not tax or legal advisors. Anyway, we’ll talk to you next week.

Announcer 1:06:56
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