Jim Rogers shares his concerns about the growing government debt and the future of the U.S. economy. See the full interview transcript below.

Jason Hartman 0:54
Welcome to Episode 1463 1463 and Thank you for joining me today. And it is always an honor to be your guide through this financial life we live in. And not just financial life, but a little bit of life in general. You know, I was listening to the flashback Friday Episode 1462. And wow, you know, the great ideas of history are just there are just some ideas that are just great. And they, they stand the test of time, when you look at some of the ideas that came out of, you know, the Roman Empire and from the great philosophers, and it is truly amazing how those great ideas Well, the great ideas from antiquity are still great ideas today. And how little things have changed in some ways. But at the same time, of course, how much things have changed at the same time. So as you may have heard last week on an episode I told you that I reordered for maybe the 15th time. The book Earl Nightingale’s greatest discovery, which is such a great book, it’s out of print, I got a hold of a used copy of it. Gosh, what’s the copyright date on this book? 1987 1987 and Earl Nightingale died in 1989. I believe it was March 25. If I remember correctly, that was a date I noticed. And we’ll remember because he was such a great thinker and really shared so many great ideas and influenced my life in so many positive ways. And today, we are going to have a great thinker Jim Rogers, the legendary Jim Rogers is our guest today. And let me tell you what a big deal Jim Rogers is. He’s such a humble man, but this is his fourth time on the show. So he’d been on three times before but the last time was like seven years ago, so I had him back on the show. And when he had his hedge fund with his former partner, George Soros, yes, that was his business partner and he doesn’t like to talk about it. He says, if he asked me about my former partner That’s like asking me about my ex wife. I get it.

I feel the same way about some some people I’ve been in business with over the years, sadly. But that’s the way it goes. Right? Like my late grandmother told me many, many years ago, she said, Jason, the hardest ship to sail is a partnership. That’s pretty good advice there. And that is why you should follow my commandment number three, thou shalt maintain control by being a direct investor, because then you don’t have the sale, the hardest ship, a partnership, the hardest ship, but Jim Rogers is such an interesting guy and he wrote the book investment biker which some of you may know about. It was a Very famous book. And then the book that I really fell in love with his work was adventure capitalist, where he talked about how he and his ugly fiance, I don’t think they were married yet. went around the world to like, hundred ish countries give or take in a customized Mercedes. And they just drove that thing all around the world. And he talks about capitalism around the world. And it was so fascinating, really just just a fascinating book that I had listened to on audio and also read more than once. I don’t know how many times offhand but but it was a great book. And I want to get into that in a moment here. But speaking of great thinkers and great ideas, I want to share with you a quote that I discovered at age 17, that I always liked by one of my very favorite writers, and that is Ralph Waldo Emerson, the good old Emerson. And this quote is really great. He says, to laugh often and much, I think I could learn from that I don’t laugh often or much. But I should do it more. Okay, so his quote, to laugh often and much to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children, to earn the appreciation of honest critics, and to endure the betrayal of false friends, to appreciate beauty to find the beauty and others to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child a garden patch, or redeemed social condition, or a job well done, to know even one other life has breathed easier, because you have lived this is to have succeeded. And that is I don’t believe that was in Earl Nightingale his great book, the greatest Earl Nightingale his greatest discovery, but it is a great quote, I think maybe I heard it first from Denis waitley who is by the way, where I learned about Earl Nightingale from Denis waitley and you Check out Episode Number 150 Denis waitley is on that show and I was lucky enough to be able to interview him on the show and these just great thinkers have such enduring influence. When I think of Jim Rogers and 40 200% return on investment in a decade in his hedge fund, and that was at the same time that the s&p I think, was the s&p maybe the Dow don’t quote me on this. Did 47% in the decade, his fund earned 40 200%. Can you believe it? That’s insanity. It’s incredible. It’s incredible. And when I think of these great thinkers and great authors and great thought leaders of our time, one of the passages from Earl Nightingale his book, I think it’s encouraging to all of us to be one of these people to be one of these people, because we are the leaders of our own lives. And we’ve got to become the heroes of our own life. And as far as your investments go, I’m here to be your guide to help you with your investment portfolio. But look, you have to be the hero and nobody can do that for you. Only you can do that. That is your province, your agency completely. And it is amazing to me, when you look at over time over maybe 10 or 20 years, the rewards always go to the doers. And they always go to the risk takers. And sometimes the risk takers certainly lose. And sometimes they win. But he gotta go out and you gotta just take that risk alone. And Earl Nightingale talks about that in this book. And by the way, since this is not on computer, I can’t search it. I was literally flipping pages to try and find this one great part where he talks about risk. I’ll probably find that for an episode later. This week maybe. But one passage I did find that I really like here. And he says, William Lyon Phelps, former president of Yale University used to say, quote, The most interesting people are the people with the most interesting pictures in their minds. Think about that for a moment. The most interesting people are the people with the most interesting pictures in their minds. Unquote. And then Earl says, so I’m, it’s like a double quote here i’m quoting, rolls, quoting William Lyon Phelps, and I’m quoting Earl Nightingale, okay, you get the idea. The ideas we hold that direct the course of our lives, pictures in our minds, our art gallery, we might say, and our facial appearance after 40, interestingly enough, is usually a reflection of that art gallery. We are told that our faces after 40 are our own responsibilities. It’s only natural They should mirror the contents of our minds. That’s what makes so many middle aged and older people beautiful and handsome, and so many not. Unfortunately, in all the years of their lives, they have failed to put together a gallery of ideas that reflect good shear happiness and hopeful expectation. Once again, it’s the minority that realizes the importance of great ideas in our lives. Ideas are simply everything. A person can have beautiful features. But if great ideas aren’t there, the resulting vacuum is quite apparent. And then that’s the quote I read to you. On the last episode last Thursday, I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I woke and saw that life was duty. I acted and behold, duty was joy. And Earl Nightingale goes on to say There’s an idi hold from which I derive a great deal of inner peace and contentment. Anyway, it this is just such a great book. It’s unbelievable. Get it if you can. It’s out of print, but available used. And it’s funny because speaking of ideas that people hold in their mind in this book that I got from the US bookstore, there was a postcard dated three 588 from the Lowe’s Ventana Canyon resort in Tucson, Arizona. And this is to Marcia Jacobs, the postcard, and I guess the person never sent it because they never put the address on here. But she was Janet, who wrote this was probably reading this book, and wrote a postcard to her friend Marsha, and yeah.

human history, it’s so amazing and ideas that people have. So make sure that the ideas you hold in your mind, our big ideas, and one big idea I want to share with you before we get Jim Rogers, if nothing else went right. And you had purchased properties from us, which I know many of you do, many of you listening did back when I started in the investor only business in 2004. And you got mortgages back then, of $1 million. Because remember those mortgages back then were plentiful. And they weren’t as cheap as they were today, but they were still cheap. You’re probably refinanced by, by now, maybe a few times. You did the refi to die strategy. But if nothing else went right, if nothing else went right. You made $357,000 by only one dimension of your multi dimensional asset class, inflation induced destruction, and that is not reflected on property tracker. It’s not reflected In the store the property store at Jason hartman.com. This is outside of that calculation, inflation into step instruction. And guess what else? But wait, there’s more, as they say on the late night, sleazy infomercial. But wait, there’s more. That only includes that only includes inflation calculated at the official rate, which we know is massively understated. That is a 35.7% return just on inflation, nothing else inflation and do step destruction, because inflation pays off those mortgages for you. So it’s pretty hard not to succeed with good quality income property investing with a good strategy behind it. But what does it take? It takes you being the hero of your own life. You got to do it and maybe you’re already doing it, many of you are, but are you doing it enough? Should you be doing it more? Because to be the hero of your own life? Well, how do we remember a hero? Well, they do something big, something significant. They don’t just do the normal thing. They don’t just do the conservative thing. They don’t just do the easy thing. They do something great. They take a bigger risk, they take a bigger venture, and that is how they become the hero of their own life. So, without further ado, let’s get to Jim Rogers if you need us reach out through Jason Hartman calm or one 800 Hartman and here is the legendary Jim Rogers. It’s my pleasure to welcome back a returning guest and that is the gentleman investor Jim Rogers. back for his fourth time on the show. You really needs no introduction, but he’s got an incredible track record with investing. And he wrote one of my all time favorite books, entitled adventure capitalist I, that’s one of many. But that was the one where I really just fell in love with his work. And he’s gone around the world twice, once on a motorcycle. And he wrote about that an investment biker. And then in a custom made Mercedes, that was a venture capitalist, and he’s gotten many books since then. But it’s a pleasure to have him back. Jim, welcome. How are you doing?

Jim Rogers 14:28
I am delighted to be here. Yes, four times. You’re right.

Jason Hartman 14:31
It’s great to have you and it’s been nice. You’re

Jim Rogers 14:33
tired of me by now. No,

Jason Hartman 14:34
never get tired of you. And it’s been seven years since we had you on the show. So it’s been a long time, but it’s great to have you back. And I

Jim Rogers 14:43
think the last time oh my gosh, what did I do wrong? It was

Jason Hartman 14:50
it was February of 2013. But this is a time of extraordinary crisis. And Keynesian money printing like crazy Jim. I mean, what do you make of the world’s response to COVID-19? I mean, where do we start? Right? There’s there’s just so much going on nowadays.

Jim Rogers 15:09
Well, Jason, we’ve had many epidemics in history. This is the first time we’ve closed down the whole world. I’m not quite sure what I guess the press or politicians or somebody panics, because we know in 2009 us we had a huge h1 in one virus didn’t close down McDonald’s in closed Delta Airlines, nobody closed anything. So I have a feeling that maybe we’ve overreacted. The Cure can be worse than the disease at times, and I’m afraid that’s what’s happened. More words. I’m more worried but equally worried. You know, these guys have an election in November. They don’t care about you, me. People watching this show young Pete my I don’t care about my kids. After the election, the amounts of money which have been printed and spent and borrow is staggering. So America says we’re Americans. America’s gonna have a huge burden for a long, long time, not just to the Japanese or maybe worse, you know, the head of the Bank of Japan goes to work every morning turns on the printing press in France as fast as he can.

Jim Rogers 16:13
As fast as he can. So, I mean, it’s the world’s making it for you guys. me making big mistakes.

Jason Hartman 16:19
Yeah, it really is just, I mean, we thought it was unprecedented during the Great Recession. But look at it now. I was looking at a chart yesterday, Jim, that said that Japan has dedicated 21% of its GDP to the COVID stimulus, the US 13% but Japan by far the leader, and they already have, what 230% debt to GDP ratio and a declining population. So that mix I mean, I don’t think there will be a Japan in 50 or 70 years. Well, they’re

Jim Rogers 16:52
right. I’ve just published two books in Japan this month. two books saying exactly the same thing. Number one bestsellers last year. Saying, guys, this is going to be a disaster. Say it again. Yeah, call up the Japanese.

Jim Rogers 17:06
There’s not gonna be in Japan and

Jason Hartman 17:08
you know, they gotta have some children or some immigration or fix their economy some way or another because it’s just, it’s just unbelievable what’s going on there. But you know, Jim, one of the things you said years ago, which I was really I’m super fascinated, I always have maybe it’s been a morbid curiosity. You’ve been to many more countries than me, but I’ve got 87 under my belt. And I’ve always been fascinated by North Korea. And I was fascinated by one of your remarks about North Korea a few years back, saying that you thought it would open, and it would become one of the most fascinating regions in the world. And there would be a lot of new labor available, you know, obviously an inexpensive labor market. It companies could exploit, you know, for lack of a better word. Maybe that’s not the right word. You know, what do you think about North Korea now, especially with the sort of disappearance of Kim Jong Hoon? I don’t know if he’s back yet or not. He

Jim Rogers 17:59
reappeared. He reappeared or he was down at the Disco for. Well, what I said was the Korean Peninsula wants to 38th parallel opens is going to be an extremely exciting place because of a lot of cheap educated, disciplined labor with natural resources. capital in the south manufacturing in the south. 80 million people on the Chinese board is going to be extremely exciting. Once the 38th parallel opens. It’s got everything It’s amazing. But I mean, you and I, we can’t even go I’ve been there twice. But it’s not legal now for Americans to go so we can do is talk about it. Yeah, we’re from the land of the free right not so free anymore.

Jason Hartman 18:38
Well, that’s certainly true. And speaking of freedom, boy, I you know, in the Constitution, the First Amendment guarantees the right to peaceably assemble. You can’t do that now. That’s for sure. You know, yeah, I mean, these all of these lockdowns, you know, the, the cure being worse than the problem. That is a very valid idea. You know what do you think is behind it? Is it is it a power grab by the government to just get make the citizens more dependent get more control over everybody? Any any thoughts about that even conspiratorial thoughts? we entertain you

Jim Rogers 19:12
know, you know that the government all governments not just ours wants more power

Jim Rogers 19:18
every chance they get they take advantage of it so of course, yes. Do I like it? No, of course not. I would like to push them back, push them back. And that’s what the boundaries of the of the country Yeah. But no, they all want all the power they can get. They’ll seize it every chance they get. And that’s what’s going on. Now. The idea that somebody can tell me I cannot go to the butcher or to the barber is lunacy. I mean, I live in Singapore where they’re doing the same thing. I’m not picking on America. I’m picking on everybody.

Jason Hartman 19:48
I mean look at you know, yeah, I mean, some countries have much more severe lockdowns. I, I know you were on with my friend George gammon recently and he lives in Colombia. And, you know, I talked to him yesterday and they can only go out for 20 minutes. Today, and they can only go to the grocery store once a week. I mean, it’s bad enough in the US, but it’s even worse than other places.

Jim Rogers 20:06
But as I understand eight states did not log down, and Hallelujah, whoever they are, I should contribute to those governors. Sweden did not log down. Austria opened up very quickly. So some people have realized, wait a minute, guys, let’s let’s check this.

Jason Hartman 20:23
Yeah. So this will make everybody much more dependent on government. But when we look at the debt problem, of course, the debt is increasing by the US massively, but everywhere else, it’s the same. So it’s all relative, right? Or is it?

Jim Rogers 20:39
No, of course, it is about nearly everybody. North Korea is not increasing. But everybody else is you’re right, right. Oh, of course, we’re all but then there’s just because everybody goes broke. Do you think that’s good, but everybody will print money? That’s not good. You know, we’re gonna have what they call modern monetary theory and more money today. Empty more money today, whatever it is, you know, suppose everybody does it. Yes. But is that good for the long run? Absolutely not. I mean, people have looked for free lunches for the since the beginning of time. There’s no such thing as a free lunch. And I’m afraid we’re all gonna suffer. I know we’re all going to suffer later. And how will we suffer inflation? Is that the suffering you refer to when it comes to the depth of the money printing? Just generally? Well, certainly the dead is going to be staggered. You know, in 1920, the UK was the richest most there was no number two to the UK in 1920. But then they went nuts. They started borrowing money spending money, fast as they could. UK is not even a top 20. Now Now it’s still layer, but the standard of living relative to what they had in 1920 is far far down. The sad part is that’s what’s going to happen to you and me and to my kids. We’re worried about my kids than I am me. Now the standard of living or declining cost of living Then we’ll go up the cost of production. You know, Mr. Trump says everybody, let’s bring the factories home. Well, okay, fine, do it. But that means every, if you get a TV, it’s not going to be a very good TV. If history is any indication, and it’s going to be expensive. Yeah, so our standard of living is going to continue to decline.

Jason Hartman 22:20
But more that means more jobs in America. So that is a there’s a flip side of that equation, right?

Jim Rogers 22:26
Well, conceivably, yes. But if we’re less competitive, maybe you’ll have more people buying TVs in Illinois, but you’re not going to have people buying materials from the United States. Because we cannot compete with the US what one of the problems that we have, the cost of production is skyrocketing for many, many reasons. And so that’s why the economy keeps

Jason Hartman 22:48
suffering. Yeah, you know, we’re in this rare we have this rare malady going on of supply demand shock, where you know, usually just demand falls off and The you go into recession or depression even worse, but um, but this time, it’s a supply and demand issue. Now I don’t know if that’ll continue. But certainly the supply chains have been disrupted. So, I mean, there’s an argument to bring some of these supply chains on shore for every country, not just the US, right? So that you know, you can get ventilators and mask when you need them. You You can’t outsource everything can you? Would

Jim Rogers 23:26
you rather live in North Korea or South Korea, right?

Jim Rogers 23:31
You know, they do it all themselves. Would you rather live in North Vietnam or South East Germany, West Germany. I mean, these countries don’t exist anymore. But you remember, now you can do it that way. But it’s not a very good way to live rather live in Cuba or Florida, right? I’d rather live here. No, no, you can do it. But as it causes your standard of living, and your country to decline, not the first week first week everybody has a new job. Two years later, five years. Later, the country is continuing to the class. I said, that’s what happened in the UK. But there’s many examples in history where this has been done. And it’s gone to decline.

Jason Hartman 24:11
Right? We can do it.

Jim Rogers 24:13
But it doesn’t mean things are gonna be great for my kids or young people,

Jason Hartman 24:17
meaning rising consumer prices, causing a declining standard of living. That’s your point, right? And less quality. Yeah, and well in lower quality, because you’re not outsourcing to you, you know, using the economic specialization of the best person or company or country for the job, right?

Jim Rogers 24:36
You sell on price. And if your economy is closed, you don’t have to worry about competition. You don’t have to worry about quality anymore.

Jim Rogers 24:45
Don’t worry about

Jason Hartman 24:49
that crappy GM car that was built in the 70s. Right? Yeah.

Jim Rogers 24:55
So in 1965, General Motors was the single richest, most powerful country company in the world. 50 years later was bankrupt. And you know what? The Board of Directors, the consultants came in into Detroit and said, the Japanese are coming. And the boss who cares, go away and leave us alone, right. 50 years later, General Motors was bankrupt. And Toyota was the biggest, richest cloud car company in the world. Yeah, sure thing close off. But there’s a price. Maybe the current politicians won’t care or know about it. But my kids will know and they’ll know when space and all young people will know in space.

Jason Hartman 25:36
It takes a long time for this stuff to play out. But you know, when we when we talk, you know, look back to before COVID, right, and all of the trade war talks. I call it a trade negotiation, not a trade war, but the media likes to call it a trade war, given what’s happened with the Coronavirus outbreak and such. You know, what do you think of China’s standing now I know you’ve been very bullish on China or Asia in general. What’s changed? Has any of your thinking changed about that? In light of what’s happened recently?

Jim Rogers 26:05
Well, I mean, my feelings for it. I’ve said for decades that China is on the rise. This pretty simple thing you think I was wrong? You were obviously Right.

Jason Hartman 26:16
I mean, listen, I I was in Shanghai last year, and I couldn’t believe it, Jim. I mean, that that was it’s an absolute miracle. I mean,

Jim Rogers 26:24
anything yeah, certainly has been a miracle for 40 years. So all I was was saying, Listen, guys, China’s on the rise, and you better pay attention. It’s going to change. It has changed and is changing. Right now. There’s a huge amount of any Chinese animosity in the US. I still can’t quite figure it out. I’ll sit and watch and say, What are they talking about? And then I also know what’s dangerous, the kind of hysteria which is being built up. This is not good for anybody. I don’t understand why. Why everybody’s building up this fury. I do know that throughout his St. Jason when things started going wrong and whenever things go wrong in a country throughout history, the politicians blame the foreigners. It’s very easy to blame the foreigners they have different languages, different skin, different hair, different everything different religions, is very easy to blame the foreigners they smell bad. Their food and they eat

Jason Hartman 27:24
weird food. Yeah,

Jim Rogers 27:25
yeah. Can you believe that many times I’ve heard people say and their food smells man. Yeah, you know, but that’s what I’m not picking on America. Most people all over the world throughout history have worked. And at the moment, things are not great in America. And China’s been on the rise. So, of course, it’s their fault. It’s not your fault. Mr. Voter in Iowa, it’s their fault. And that’s what’s happening.

Jason Hartman 27:52
Yeah, but what does it mean to China’s future? I mean, China obviously has been an incredible story that no one could argue With that, for even a New York minute, but they do have a demographic problem coming. They’ve had that one child policy about 1015 years from now, that’s going to be a pretty big impact on their economy. But then you’ve got this and, and you’ve got these trust issues. And, of course, the intellectual property issue has always been there. But now you’ve got all this argument about did they really tell the truth about the outbreak and so forth, and the who is even attacking them and the who was not really on the side of the US because Trump has, you know, attack the who so

Jim Rogers 28:32
strange January, January, February, Washington DC was saying all sorts of good things about China were handled. They handle them. I mean, I, if somebody can sit and say, yes, the Chinese plotted all this, set up this virus, spread it around the world. I don’t know why they did that. But if that’s the that’s what I said before. I cannot understand and believe some of the things I hear people saying, Well, those

Jason Hartman 28:59
are they are outlandish. theories. I mean, why would they why would the Chinese do that it hurts them. They hurt themselves. I mean, it’s been terrible for China, but it’s just the issue of the reaction to the virus. Right?

Jim Rogers 29:09
Well, that’s back to the point. Yes. It’s reacting to foreigners to foreigners. The Chinese foreigners in this case have been on the rise, they have been very successful. So of course, you blame it on them. This in the British 80 years ago blamed it on the Americans, you know, it’s all the Americans fault. You know, there was a chance in the after the Second World War that American Britain would go to war. The British were so furious. I mean, it didn’t happen. But you know, that’s what happens. people blame the farmer. And that’s what’s happening. Now you can sit and try to be reasonable with people and explain this, that and the other talk about history. They don’t care. Right, right.

Jason Hartman 29:49
People smell bad. And there’s a very short attention span, sadly, so people don’t seem to really think deeply or analyze anything in much detail. anymore, unfortunately. So where are we going with this? Jim? I mean, we got a couple more minutes. What can we expect? Or are we in a depression already? Or is it just a recession? I mean, I know there’s not exists definition.

Jim Rogers 30:13
In a recession, probably everywhere in the world is in a recession now, which is not going to be cured anytime soon. Now, the markets are different from recession. You know, America is the largest debtor nation in the world. And in the last month, we spent trillions with a tea and a printed trillions, they’re gonna do more so but not just the Bank of Japan. That guy goes to work every day and run some printing presses as fast as he can. He starts by so markets are different from economies and markets are having a big rally the rally of prime, maybe may will go down it should go down after the big rally, but you know, I’m sure back by the summer in Washington, they know the election is coming. They’re going to do everything they can to make Happy people happy until the election. No, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t short most markets unless you’re good short term trader, because I would expect more this madness will continue. This could turn into a bubble on the upside. Right, the upside right stocks because of the stimulus, right?

Jason Hartman 31:17
It is that what would make it a bubble? I mean, you know, the Fed is going in and buying everything. They’re like an asset buyer. Now they’re the biggest investor on the planet, right?

Jim Rogers 31:26
Well, I don’t know, the Bank of Japan wants to tell you, right, yes, your point is very valid, so tight, right, because a lot of people are now spending asset. And if I weren’t talking to you, I’d probably be buying Japan right now, because the Bank of Japan’s got more money than I do. And all they want to do is buy stocks and ETFs. Is it is it sound though Japan’s in serious decline? Is the market gonna go up? Because of course, because Japan can make any market go up?

Jason Hartman 31:54
Yeah, it’s, it’s absolutely unheard of the time we’re in. So this could cause a bubble on The other end of it because of all the stimulus.

Jim Rogers 32:02
Yeah. But not so much the stimulus because of the money that’s being printed and spent and borrowed by Okay. Yes.

Jason Hartman 32:09
Generally generally call the

Jim Rogers 32:11
money’s going somewhere. Yeah, absolutely. It might work in America, they want to get it out as fast as they can, because the elections in November.

Jason Hartman 32:19
And Jim, you refer to Wall Street in the markets, well in the foreign stock exchanges, too. But what about the main street economy and let’s close with that. Just tell us what this means for the typical person, middle class America, the main street economy north of Wall Street is

Jim Rogers 32:37
doing serious damage I mentioned to you the UK and the 20s. When they did this, their comparative standard of living, declined enormously. It’s happening in America. I’m going to use a Singapore example since I live here, but it’s a little more neutral. I know a guy’s got five roses, but a few restaurants. The Michelin restaurants not not nice restaurants. Yeah, they’re nice restaurants here. Basically, he’s had to close everything. He’s selling his wine cellar to stay in business. It’s gonna have over a million dollars of debt within a month. never had that before. It’s gonna have no wine cellar. Now. Yeah, he will probably come back. He might come back you might not. But if he does, it’s not gonna be the same for him as it was six months ago. No, but there are many examples like that of companies that are being damaged, damaged dramatically and that have huge amounts of debt. But he’s got a lot of debt and has a lot more debt now. The United States has a lot more debt now. No matter what you can tell me about how a free lunches or free lunch it’s hard to maintain a rapid rate of growth when you have huge amounts of debt in America. I mean, I don’t like saying this. I’m an American. I got Mexican kids. But I know history and I know what it’s always happened.

Jason Hartman 33:58
Yep, nope. There’s there’s no question about it, that debt is a burden on growth, it really makes an economy stagnant and and just turns it into a zombie economy. At some point, I guess the only thing we can hope for is that it’s relative. So most others are in the same boat in terms of other countries. So if that’s any consolation,

Jim Rogers 34:18
I’m not no consolation to me when we as investors have to do is now we have to find the countries and the companies that are not going to go in such a serious decline. So the people in Japan, I told you, it’s gonna be a nightmare for Japan. But there are other countries Korea, Korea, which is not going to be nearly as badly damaged. So as an investor, as a citizen, we have to find the places that will be damaged less badly. And unfortunately, I’m afraid I see what they were doing in America and it it grieves me. Yeah, it sends me

Jason Hartman 34:57
Yeah, and you’ve been saying that for a while, but now It’s just accelerated dramatically with this. I mean, the the money printing the, I mean, Jerome Powell has got to be the most bold Federal Reserve Chair ever. You know, he is just like, yeah, you need more Go for it. You know, he even supports Pelosi these $3 trillion. And he’s a republican. I mean, it’s just for a while.

Jim Rogers 35:19
They all want to spend somebody else’s money. There’s an election coming up, they should read it. The problem is they think they’re smarter than history. If they know history, and the great lesson of history is people do not learn the lessons of history. If they hear that if they even hear the lessons of history, they ignore them and say, yes, bunk, right. I’m smarter than history. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 35:47
This time. It’s different, famous last words, if any. All right. Well, Jim, thank you so much for joining us. I know it’s late there. So we’ve got to wrap it up, but always appreciate having you on Show Do you want to give out any website or anything?

Jim Rogers 36:03
No, I don’t have anything to sell. Everybody should watch creating wealth.

Jim Rogers 36:07
Everybody should do. No, I don’t I don’t have anything to sell.

Jason Hartman 36:12
And by the way, I got a compliment you You’re always so gracious you do so many interviews, you don’t need to do that. You know, there’s like you said, there’s you don’t have anything to sell, but you’re really getting the word out to the world. So, you know, we appreciate it. The media in general, you know, you’re you’re just always, we always see it. So

Jim Rogers 36:29
let me tell you, Jason, I, when I was younger, many people helped me in many ways. And even if I look like a fool, I would like to help people if I can, because when I was young, I can remember some of the guys that went out of their way to help me. And now I hope I can do some of the same for the world. You’re definitely doing

Jason Hartman 36:51
the same for the world and on behalf of the world. We appreciate it. I’ll represent the whole world. Thank you. Well, thank you.

Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website Hartman. Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.