Jason Hartman starts the show with investment counselor Sara to look at what is happening in the income property market. They discuss why a long-term plan is essential and how cash flow can ease investor concerns about high-interest rates. One of the major takeaways from the conversation is that the relative scarcity of real estate is why values continue to go up. Given the lack of inventory, investors are having to look and purchase in different areas.
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Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the company LEED solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 1:03
Welcome to the creating wealth show. This is your host Jason Hartman with episode number 904904. We are getting close to 1000 episodes, yes, in only. How many is that 96 more will have 1000 Be on the lookout for some extra episodes. I’ve given you fair warning listeners. They are coming up. We publish every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. But we have so many episodes in the cam as the expression goes. And I think that expression came from the old world of film, where they actually put the film in the tin. You know, those remember, or any of you are old enough to remember that when the film was in a big tin round thing? Well, in the can. Yeah. So nowadays, it’s just in Dropbox. That’s where the episodes are, that we’ve recorded. And so we’re going to be publishing some extra episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So be on the lookout For them, and that will get us to episode number 1000 even faster. So we’ve got a few things to talk about kind of some random things today a bunch of different things. I hope you enjoyed Episode 903 with Garrett Sutton and the flashback Friday episode about China and the end of cheap labor in China and then 901 with Dan Ammerman. A lot of people really love Dan Ammerman, his work he’s influenced me greatly, and he was on the show recently. And then Episode 900 talking about self authoring with Professor Dr. Jordan Peterson University of Toronto, so we’ve got some great stuff there. Don’t miss any of those episodes. And for today’s episode, we are talking with one of our investment counselors. You’ve heard her on the show many times before. And that is Sarah Sarah, welcome back. How are you?
Hey, Jason. Great. Thanks for having me on.
Jason Hartman 2:48
Yeah, it’s good to have you. So what is going on in your world, tell us what’s happening with clients out there and with business and just give us a little bit of a bird’s eye view. You know, your finger is right on the pulse. there
yeah actually it’s just been a crazy week we’ve got a lot of clients registering for our upcoming meet the masters of course, taking advantage of the early bird pricing. lots of exciting news coming up their properties are selling quickly. We’re in several different markets now doing a lot of business in Memphis, Little Rock, Indianapolis, a little bit in Cincinnati, a lot in Jackson, really just all over the place. So working really hard to bring new inventory and, you know, help our clients grow their portfolios,
Jason Hartman 3:32
Awesome. Sounds good. You know, we have beat the drum for many years about the scarcity of inventory. And that’s one of the wonderful things that is as frustrating as it can be to try and buy a good property today. And I understand that completely. It is also you know, one of the things that really makes the value of your property very reliable for many, many years to come because built into the whole concept of the real estate asset class. It just has built in scarcity. And that’s why it is such a valued thing. That’s why it has the most favored lending status the most favored debt status. A no other asset class, can you get such phenomenal financing because income property is so secure, you know, real estate is so secure. I mean, people just love lending on it. I’m a lender, I lend on properties. Really, the lending environment has been so busy for me, I’m lending on a few properties every week now. I mean, funding all sorts of deals for people to acquire properties and rehab them and then sell them to our investors many times sometimes not. Sometimes they’re selling them on the retail market to traditional homebuyers, but mostly to our investors. It’s just very secure. It’s just such a secure asset class and it’s got that built in scarcity. And then, of course, the preamble to the National Association of Realtors oath is under all is Lamb. And that is so true. You know, it just dictates everything. The last two weekends I’ve been in Los Angeles, you just look at that absolutely psychotic. And I’m saying psychotic. Sarah, you think it’s tough for you to operate in this market? Try being in Los Angeles or someplace like that, where these prices are absolutely nuts. They’re very rocketing. Oh my god, it’s just all out of control. Now, of course, we never recommend these cyclical markets like that. Because As the old saying goes, what goes up must come down. And it always does. And we like the safe conservative linear markets. But so many of our clients are from places like California or the West Coast or the expensive Northeastern markets or South Florida, or, you know, around the world. We have listeners in 164 countries, and they’re doing the smart thing. Many years ago, Sarah and I, you’ve been with me about 10 years now. I think hasn’t been 10 years yet. Are we? are we waiting for an anniversary going on?
I’m going on 11. We’re going on 11 in May.
Jason Hartman 6:08
Yep. honeybunch did we have an anniversary and you didn’t tell me?
I know we did. We had a 10 year anniversary.
Jason Hartman 6:15
I guess you didn’t even invite me to the party. Yeah, we need to have that party. I really do. What do you think of my new name for Sarah everybody? honeybunch
you just call me anytime? I did.
Jason Hartman 6:28
Yeah. Wow. Sarah and I just a disclaimer are not romantically involved. But, but since we’re talking about anniversaries, I figured, you know, that would be funny, right? Hope I didn’t shoot myself in the shoes, as you said, No, you’re dead. And the other thing if you don’t know the inside joke, folks, Sarah always revises old sayings to make them her own.
We haven’t done that in a while though. I’m getting
Jason Hartman 6:56
better. No, you haven’t. But you know, I’ve got one that his lyrics to a song, an old song maybe from like the 70s, one of those old, sappy 70 songs. It reminds me of income properties right now in the real estate market right now and what’s going on? And I mentioned it to you before we started recording the show today. And that is the concept of the relative idea of price discovery and inventory availability. It reminds me of this old song, and the lyrics go like this, maybe you will revise it, Sarah to make it mean your own thing. But the lyrics are, if you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with. Okay, you’re thinking, what does that have to do with investing in income property? Well, it has a lot to do with it because what that really means is luck. The marketplace is the marketplace, and we must always adjust our expectations in accordance with reality. So you know, like the old songs If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with, right? You know, get your expectations in line with reality here, folks. And that’s the same thing with real estate market. It is the concept of price discovery. And you know what’s really interesting, Sarah, is I love the feature on Facebook, as much as I hate Facebook, and I do hate Facebook and Google, because these companies are just, oh, yeah, no, these companies are abusing our information. Just it’s, it’s scary. Okay, but that’s another topic plus we get on a tangent. But the one feature I do love about Facebook is facebook memories. And you know what happened to me just a couple of months ago. Yeah, I posted a property that we had for sale back in like 2011 or 2012. is now 2017, by the way, and I mean, talk about an adjustment in the marketplace, right? This property was in Atlanta. And the numbers were, I mean, you couldn’t even come close to those numbers today. It
was a 5000 down deal with
Jason Hartman 9:01
I don’t know if it was one of those old really low down deals that we had for a very short time there. But just the rent to value ratio and the quality of the property, people have had to adjust their expectations. And, you know, maybe you can speak to that a little bit because Sara, many of the clients you’re working with, you’ve been working with them for years and years and years. I mean, they were buying properties from you, you know, 810 years ago, and they’re still buying properties. But tell me about how they’re adjusting their expectations. If they are hopefully they are. It is, it’s very true. We have to adjust our mindset a little bit. The cash flow is not as good as it once was. But, you know, I just have to remind them about the multi dimensions of real estate investing. And, you know, one thing that I think people forget about, and there are so many that you’ve talked about many, many times, but one thing that I think people forget about is, you know, yeah, sometimes you get a little bit of that appreciation, but at the same time As your tenant is also paying down your loan, you’re getting the mortgage pay down from the tenant. And so, you know, fast forward 10 years, you know, these clients have properties with really low loan balances, that they didn’t put any more money into that deal. And now they’re able to, you know, some of them are able to tap into that equity. It’s not just appreciation growth, it’s like I said, Principal pay down and so they’re able to have a larger spread there and pull cash out and roll it into new deals. That’s one hidden, you know, wealth creator that people forget about. And so, okay, so let me comment on their number for Okay, so everybody listening is familiar with the concept of an annuity, you know, like a defined contribution retirement plan or an annuity, or any investment like this, or even just a budget for saving money, right? everybody’s familiar with these three ideas. Okay. So if you decided you were going to save some money, and you opened up The savings account, we’ll just make it a simple example. Right? You decided, well, you’re going to put $100 a month into that savings account 1200 dollars per year. And you know, over the course of a few years now the account won’t pay you any interest and you’ll get creamed by taxes and inflation, even though inflation is relatively low, you’ll still you’re still earning essentially negative returns, right? But forget about that. Just do simple math of just saving the money like it’s in a piggy bank, right? $100 a month into a savings account. Well, if you could buy the rights, okay, look at it this way. If you could buy the rights to make someone else, put $100 a month into a savings account for you. And you only had to pay $20,000 for that. But that right, lasted for three decades for 30 years. And they put $100 a month into an account for you. Would you pay $20,000 Like, that’s a super simple way of looking, I just thought of this, you know? Well, while you were talking of just looking at a mortgage and the dynamic of real estate, which is actually tremendously better than what I just said, because of course, that principle pay down, we’ll start, it may be $80 a month. But as you go through time, the principal pay down gets much bigger, you get to your 16 of that mortgage, and, well, you’re taking some huge chunks out of that balance. And that person’s paying a lot of money down, just from that alone with none of the other multi dimensional characteristics of a great income property investment. I mean, just that alone, man, I would pay $20,000 for that all day long. What I mean with the 20,000 is, you know, the downpayment, right? I mean, roughly 20,000, give or take, but you know, you’re paying 20 grand to get someone to put money into an account for you, which is your mortgage principle pay down for three decades. Pretty good deal, right? Yeah, it’s a great deal. And that’s Also one of the reasons I like some of the more expensive properties. Number one, they’re usually in better areas. But number two, and again, this is just something people don’t think about, and I had great conversation with somebody about this last week is that, you know, the bigger the loan size, the more principal pay down that tenant is doing for you. I mean, you’re still getting the cash flow, but you’re chipping away at some of that debt. Now, you know, there’s another, there’s an argument for the other side, I know you don’t like lazy equity. But you know, the idea is at some point, you’ll reinvest it or put it to work or sell the property on a 1031 exchange. Right, right. And even if you do, hopefully, you do equity stripping, and you follow my refi till you die plan. And if you’re not familiar with that, just go to Jason Hartman, calm and type refi till Ya, ya, slang refi till you die and listen to the podcast episodes on that and I mean, you know, it’s just a phenomenal deal. Because not only do you get the right you buy the rights, to have a slave but 100 A month in your account for you, right? But then every seven or 12 years or whatever, you refinance it and you pull cash out. It’s the greatest investment on Earth, right?
Yeah, absolutely. I actually had somebody asked me about the refi till you die. And, you know, just to make one clarification or disclaimer there is that you never know when you’re going to be able to access that equity. You know, there’s a we have some examples that we’ve done in some of our past seminars and podcasts where there’s like a seven year plan or a 12 year plan. It really just depends on the property, what the financing looks like, you know, financing guidelines are subject to change. But yeah, the idea is at some point, to strip that equity and put it to work. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So I had asked you what’s going on with your clients, and we
Jason Hartman 14:45
got off on a tangent, but I think it was a decent one. Yeah. So what else do you want to say? What markets are they buying? They’re just buying all over because they inventory being scarce. You don’t have a bunch of inventory in like any one market, right?
Yeah. I mean, it really just changed from week to week, or month, month, one month, we might have a ton of properties in Memphis and they sell and maybe takes a couple months before we replenish inventory in that market. And so one thing that I’ve been helping my clients do is just to be open minded, come up with a plan to start looking at two to three different markets be open to investing in two to three different markets. And then it’s almost a timing thing, you know, when when the right property becomes available, you will have researched those markets, talk to the local market specialists, talk to the property managers, so that when the right deal comes up, you’re ready to move forward in any of those given market. And so recently, we’ve closed Well, I can kind of rattle off some some clients that are closing, I mean, shout out to my father in law, Pat, he just closed on a second Memphis deal. So that’s exciting. And now I can test it and see if he’s listening to the podcast.
Jason Hartman 15:55
Because you’ll say you mentioned my name
and you’ll know me well. So I’ll know I’ll know if you’ve caught up or not on the podcast good. You know I actually just had Scott could call the Scott yesterday who bought several in Jackson and I got really good feedback on the property management and just that the properties are performing as suggested on the Performa we have Damon who just recently closed on a couple in Jackson all Yeomans got all kinds of properties.
Jason Hartman 16:21
Congratulations Damon, you really been with us a long time. That’s great. Yeah, he’s doing great. And I have to check with him is he coming to meet the Masters because I am looking at some of these clients and wondering who’s going to be there and would not miss meet the masters. In fact, none of you should miss meet the masters. This is folks. This is our 20th anniversary meet the Masters now as I said before, we used to do it twice a year right. We’ve been doing meet the Masters for I don’t know how long you been doing that event, maybe 12 years or something or 10 years or something like that. But But anyway, this is our 20th event. And so we are really just making this a top notch event. First of all, we’ve got a lot more space. We’ve got a much bigger space. We’ve had a lot of ticket sales so far. And that’s been going great. Got Garrett Sutton, Rich Dad, advisor, author of six books, including a few in the rich dad series. The attorney he’s he’s back, this will be his third meet the Masters where he’s speaking. Danielle DiMartino. Booth, founder of money strong, full time columnist for Bloomberg view, and a former federal reserve adviser Andres Allen, the leading economic forecaster Moneyball economics, john Byrne, CEO of john Byrne’s real estate consulting, he’s a leading real estate research and forecasting, really company. I mean, his company just puts out all sorts of fantastic articles Brian Smith, the founder of boots, for a really interesting, inspirational entrepreneurial story. We’ll have our local market specialists and property management teams flying in from all over the country. You know, it’s sort of like the usual meet the Masters but we added a day because we’re adding a bunch of great speakers to the list. We’ve got a couple more big name speakers that we are waiting to announce one that I’m literally reviewing the contract. It’s sitting on my desk. And that speaker is super famous, but we can’t say the name yet. Sarah So,
okay, how many pages is that contract? Did you find out?
Jason Hartman 18:18
This is a nine page contract involving a lot of money and a big fat speaker fee. Working through this very famous person’s agent, looking forward to announcing that it’s just gonna be a fantastic event. So get your tickets at Jason hartman.com click on events when you go there. And that’s mid January in La Jolla, California. And you know, a lot of people listening, live in places we’re in the middle of January, you know, the weather’s not too nice. This is a great escape, okay. And it really sets the tone for the year. This is why we always hold it at the beginning of the year because we want to help you set the tone for your year. And by the way, Sarah, you don’t even know this. But Brittany and I, of course, Brittany has been on the show just a few times. She’s not an investment counselor, but she’s been with us for I don’t know, like a year less than you like 10 years or nine years now. And Brittany and I came up with a little contest idea, okay. So you know, you can start working on this will announce the exact details on the next Monday episode, but here is the scope. Okay? What we want to do is we want you listeners to do a little video about your five year plan for your real estate portfolio. Okay. So we’re going to pick like first and second prizes for the best five year plan. And you don’t have to post the video you can just send it to us. We’ll create a little page for it, where you can upload your video, but it’s better if you put it on YouTube and get like 6000 are not 6630 8253 views are Okay, if you do that you’re really gonna win even. So you get a better hit, if you put it on YouTube and get a lot of views, okay, so even if your video is terrible and your five year plan stinks, if you get a lot of views, you have a better chance of winning, and we’re gonna have some great prizes. Our first prize will probably be a venture Alliance weekend for free for two people, that’s a $3,000 value. And then second prize will be your travel expenses to meet the masters. Okay, we’re gonna have some great prizes. Okay, so we’ll formally announce you know, all those different categories and stuff later. But if you want to get working on this and thinking about it, now’s the time to do it. So we want you to come up with a best five year plan. Tell us your goals, the kind of income property portfolio you’re going to build. Where are you going to be in five years? Where will you own properties? Where will your portfolio have properties? What will they be like? What will some of your metrics be like it Again, this is just projecting into the future. You know, there’s an old saying, If you shoot for the moon, even if you miss you still land among the stars, right? And so it’s good either way, you know, look at a lot of the goals I’ve set for myself over the years, I didn’t even come close to hitting them, but I still hit something good. Okay. And, and you just you got to declare goals publicly. And that’s what your video is going to do. And you know, there’s just a short video a few minutes, you know, two, three minutes long, no big deal. Nothing fancy, no high production value, you can do it on your smartphone, whatever. And, and so just get thinking about this and think about your five year plan. There’s another saying people usually overestimate what they can do in a year. And they radically underestimate what they can do in five years. And that is so true when it comes to income property, Sara, think about all the people that were buying properties from us. In fact, somebody You just mentioned back in 2012, five years ago, okay. And now it’s 2017. I mean, they have enjoyed massive amounts of appreciation, and cash flow. And in five years, the world is going to change dramatically with all of the technological innovation that’s going on. Yeah, lay out your five year plan. I mean, what is your life going to look like? Feel like sound like, what’s going to be in your in your investment portfolio? What’s going to be in your bank account? In 2022 2022? Can you believe it’s gonna be 2022 in five years? That’s just crazy.
Wow, it is crazy. And hey, if you post your video on Facebook, in five years, it’ll be a memory and you can see if you hit your goal, yes, and you can you can share it. You know, exponentially So much better. Oh,
Jason Hartman 23:01
absolutely. No, absolutely. That’s a great thing that Facebook memory will come up. And that’s kind of a diary. I know, they’re, they’re doing a great job with that. And, yeah, so that’s the deal. So get busy thinking about your five year plan, we’ll show some of the winning videos at meet the Masters in January. And hey, if you can get your airfare and your hotel paid for to come to the event, that’ll be better, and you know, get a free venture Alliance weekend event. That’ll be phenomenal as well. So we’ll have some great prizes. We’ll get those all outlined. This is just for you to get thinking about it. And hey, you can make your video now. Right? And woman announced a little link where you can upload it if you don’t want to put it on YouTube. But if you put it on YouTube, you can just give us the link and that’ll make it easy. So Sarah, what do you think You didn’t know? I was gonna say that. Did you
know I mean, we’ve been talking about a contest. So I remember we did one A while back and
Jason Hartman 23:53
a large margin was hilarious, Mark.
Yes. Hi, Mark.
So many great things. A really good one.
Jason Hartman 24:02
Really fun. I remember one of our clients did a song. I loved that and he came to meet the masters. It when we had it in Irvine and this was probably, I’m gonna say now circa 2010. He did a song about the, you know, my philosophies and techniques, the 10 commandments and Rifai to you die and it was like a country song. He got up in front of the audience with a guitar and, you know, it was Oh, forgive me. He’s probably listening. It’s gonna kill me, I think from North Carolina. Yeah, yeah. Gosh, that was a long time. Time Is Flying and see I’m having a senior moment. I can’t remember. But anyway, that was awesome. So you can make a video be as creative, as funny, as geeky as you want. The more raw and gritty The video is the better probably so just, you know, just do something. It’s no big deal doesn’t have to be perfect. We’re gonna love it anyway. So get to work on that. Get to Work on your five year plan and memorialize it and declare it publicly, that will be much more likely that you will achieve those goals. You know, maybe you’ll be retired from your day job by them. And you do that through income property. You know, we just had a client, one of our listeners retire from the IRS based on her real estate investments, Wasn’t that awesome? Uh huh. Yeah. And it’s even better when someone retires from the IRS. I mean, it’s great to hear that people retire investing with us, but when they retire from the IRS, there’s just a special satisfaction in that one. So
and I believe audience coming to me and ask
me, and looking
Jason Hartman 25:43
forward to seeing you there. Definitely. Definitely love seeing you there. Good stuff. Okay. So what else should we talk about? Sarah, before we wrap it up anything else on your mind?
I think he’s covered it. I mean, we’ve gone on every tangent we can possibly go on. One thing I was thinking about earlier, you mentioned something about financing. And I was thinking, I cannot believe that interest rates are still this low. I remember, about a year ago, they started to tick up just a little bit. And I thought, Okay, this is it, they’re going up. And I’ve been seeing a lot of these closing statements and clients are still closing with a 4.75 4.855% interest rate. So it’s still an amazing time to be an investor. Yeah, inventories a little tight, but there’s still a ton of opportunity out there. Be open minded research a few different markets. It’s really a great time to be an investor. Right. And we
Jason Hartman 26:42
want we want you ultimately By the way, I just I meant to say this earlier when we’re talking about, you know, having people look at different markets. When Sarah said that she was talking about when you’re starting to invest right or if you’re already with us and investing now, you know, be open minded to a couple of different markets. But overall, I just wanted to tie that back in with the overall plan. And this will help with your five year plan video, by the way, you want to be in three markets at least you want to be investing in at least three markets, ideally, not more than five. Everybody knows, because I’ve said it a zillion times the two major mistakes I made in my real estate investing career. One is that I over diversified. I was in too many markets, you know, 11 states and 17 cities just too much too hard to keep track of. And the other mistake I made wasn’t really an investing mistake. But it’s just a prediction mistake that I wanted to re acknowledge again, and that is what you just mentioned Zehra interest rates. I have been just famously wrong about interest rates. I mean, I thought they would be dramatically higher by now. I was predicting higher rates A long time ago. Now I’ve been super right about a lot of my other predictions, but interest rates is not one of them. So Very, very hard to predict interest rates but meet the masters. One of our speakers, the Moneyball economist is very into interest rates. And he’s going to be talking about that a lot. And also john burns, who’s also speaking at meet the masters. He had a really good article just yesterday, maybe, yeah, yesterday, it was about spooky things in the real estate market, about halting, you know, in line with Halloween, he was talking about how if interest rates bumped up to 6% what that would do to housing affordability and still 6% is relatively low. I mean, when I got into the business, you know, rates were like, 12%, and they were coming down from, you know, 19%. So everybody thought 12% was a bargain case. And when I started working with you in 2007, I bought my first out of state property in Houston, which I still have, and my interest rate was 6.5%. Wow.
Wow. I mean, Still bought, it’s still performed over all these years. And I’ve had the benefit of being able to refinance that a couple times now and lower the rate and stretch out my payment and, you know, increase my cash flow. So beautiful thing.
Jason Hartman 29:12
Yeah, no, it is. That’s it. Like I’ve said many times, that’s the one one of the many wonderful things about income property as an investment, you can refi get all your cash that you put in out of the investment back out, and you still own and control the asset. So super powerful in that way, but also super powerful in that you can agree to certain terms of the deal today, including the price you pay for the house, and the type of financing you get on the house, and the rent that you get for the house. And then you have the opportunity to change the terms and improve the terms in the future. So you’re not stuck with the same deal. Right? You can literally redo the deal if the interest rates go down. You basically We have a whole new deal that just got a lot better, right? If they go up, you also have a whole new deal that got a lot better. Why? Because as I talked about in the three dimensions of real estate, go to Jason hartman.com. Type three dimensions of real estate for podcasts on that topic, as I talked about that as rates go up, basically, you’re going to get to redo the deal as you see upward pressure on rents. And you’ll see short shorter supply supply shortage because new investors won’t enter the market as much when rates go up. So either way, you can just when you just get to change the deal along the way, it’s a phenomenal asset class. Okay, we could talk forever.
The famous line is what ABC always be closing. Always be
Jason Hartman 30:42
closing you got to figure out Yeah, always be closing out where? Yeah, right. Right. Always try to be under contract where you’re buying something you know, this will this will get you into the habit of picking up, you know, three, four or five properties every year. Some of you are moving a lot faster. than that, as we know some of our clients, but if you just get a few properties a year, you’ll be amazed at how good your five year plan looks. If you do that. I mean, you’ll just be amazed. So good stuff. All right, get your tickets for meet the Masters while they’re still on early bird pricing. Go to Jason hartman.com. Click on events. Get your tickets there. We’ll see you in January for that. We’ll see you on the next episode. We’ll talk more about the contest. Get to work on your five year plan video. And you know what else, folks? Even if we never see that video, do it for yourself. everybody listening should at least do it for themselves. Right, but you can share it with us. And we’d love to see it do and maybe you’ll win a nice prize. All right, Sarah, thanks for joining me today. And I want to wish everyone very happy investing. We’re here to help you and assist you with your five year plan. any way we can just look forward to helping you and thank you so much for your continued faith and support. We’re just happy to be there for you and be a part of your plan. So Happy investing to everyone and Sarah, thanks for joining me.
Thanks for having me.
Jason Hartman 32:05
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