In today’s episode, Jason Hartman hosts Helen Davis Chaitman, a leading attorney on mortgage lending liability. She also authored The Unholy Alliance Between America’s Biggest Bank and America’s Biggest Crook. Helen explains why the Bernie Madoff case isn’t a class action and JP Morgan Chase’s role in the case. She shares that elected officials accept money to look the other way and provides possible solutions to clean up the corporation/government dirty money.
Announcer 0:00
This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.
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Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 1:00
Welcome to the creating wealth Show Episode 671 greetings from Jekyll Island, Georgia Happy Mother’s Day to you. Don’t worry the sound quality will not be this bad throughout the show. Just a little intro here because we’re with the remaining venture Alliance members. And we’re just concluding a great weekend went horseback riding today did some cool things this weekend and we thought we would just say hello, our guest today will be Helen Davis Chapman. She was one of the leading attorneys in the Bernie Madoff case. She’s the author of a fantastic book, entitled JP made off. We’re going to talk about how JP Morgan and it’s interesting that we’re here in Jekyll Island, the birthplace of the Federal Reserve, one of the biggest conspiracies and scams in all world history. We had our meeting yesterday in the Federal Reserve room here at the Jekyll Island club hotel where the Federal Reserve was formed just over 100 years ago. So a lot of fascinating history here. This is an Incredibly beautiful property. And our guest today will be very applicable to this whole discussion because she is the one who really discovered how complicit JP Morgan was in the Bernie Madoff case, how they really enabled his crime. It’s a fascinating, fascinating interview. And let’s have a couple of hellos, hear from a couple of our venture Alliance members. Elizabeth, how are you?
Elizabeth 2:24
Great. Thanks for letting me be part of this introduction. With the venture Alliance team. It’s always so exciting to be part of the conversation. I always feel like I’m a better investor. And I’m a better person, because of the engagement and the quality of the people that are involved. So it’s been a fantastic weekend, and thank you for letting me be a part of it.
Jason Hartman 2:42
And thank you for helping us organize our hot seats. That’s one of the things we do at the venture Alliance are hot seats. And Elizabeth has been instrumental in really organizing that and making it a lot better. And her husband Neil, and by the way, they’re from Seattle.
Neil 2:57
Hi there. Thank you, Jason. One of the real cool things is I I don’t know if it’s me or it was you or your mom, but one of us did stay in the chick with the condominiums that chase had or JPMorgan. And it’s kind of cool that we slept on the same, you know, maybe not the same. The same. Exactly the same room.
Jason Hartman 3:11
I didn’t even know that.
Neil 3:12
Oh, yeah. Wow. Oh, wow. I don’t know which one it was. But I mean, I’ve already got eight rooms or whatever we were in.
Jason Hartman 3:19
Fascinating. This is just this place is dripping with history. Mom, my mom is here, by the way, and we just did a hot seat with my mom about how she needs to sell one of her Los Angeles properties and, and increase her income dramatically. But you know, I’ve gotten on mom’s case about that before. So now that Elizabeth told her she should do it. She’s probably gonna do it. Mom won’t listen to me. Anyway. Happy Mother’s Day, mom.
Jason’s Mom 3:44
Thanks, Jason. Happy Mother’s Day to all of you mother’s mother’s from Gulf Shores, Alabama. And also, Jason. You know, you don’t do anything I tell you either.
Jason Hartman 3:57
Oh, I’m getting beat up here on this. This intro Yeah. Okay, let’s switch over to our fighter pilot member. And that is Brandon who is who may be a Blue Angel someday soon. Yeah,
Neil 4:08
until they hear
Jason Hartman 4:09
Is that top secret military clearance that I just you might have heard something you weren’t supposed to hear there, folks. But Brandon, what’s up?
Brandon 4:16
Hey, good. I didn’t actually fly a jet here. But I was happy to join the group this weekend. This property is gorgeous, it is beautiful. And just the History, being able to share the experience and learn about the history. It was it was pretty cool talking monetary policy in the same room. The Federal Reserve was conceived in so I just want to say to my mom, Sharon cook, Happy Mother’s Day. And I hope that you can participate in this scene by buying a property from the network.
Jason Hartman 4:47
Awesome, awesome, good stuff. You know, folks, I have said many times on the show before that the forces of governments and central banks are far too powerful to beat and you know, the old saying if he can’t beat them, join them. So align your interest as an investor with their interest. That’s how you win the game. So we’ve talked a lot about that on prior episodes. We won’t do it today. But I think you’ll find this interview coming up fascinating. Remember, our next event is our Cincinnati, Dayton sort of metro area, Ohio tour, and it’s coming up in just about a month or so. So go to Jason Hartman calm and click on the events section and check that out. And let’s just go ahead and dive into our interview. Thank you all for coming this weekend. Thanks, Jason. So let’s go ahead and join our guest and learn about JP Madoff.
It’s my pleasure to welcome Helen Davis Chapman. She’s a leading attorney on mortgage lending liability, and a legal representative to over 1600 investors impacted by none other than Bernie Madoff, the infamous Bernie Madoff. She’s author of JP made off the unholy alliance between America’s biggest bank and America’s biggest crook,
Helen, welcome. How are you?
Helen Davis Chaitman 6:02
Thank you so much, Jason. I’m just fine.
Jason Hartman 6:04
It’s good to have you on the show. And you’re coming to us from New Jersey and you practice law in New York City, right?
Helen Davis Chaitman 6:09
That’s exactly right.
Jason Hartman 6:10
Fantastic. So, before we started, I was asking you did you represent the Bernie Madoff investor victims as a class? And you said, No, it wasn’t a class. First of all, how many victims? Were there? Just remind us of that. If in case you’re you know, tell us in case we don’t know,
Helen Davis Chaitman 6:24
it’s a pretty daunting number. 35,000 people lost money and made up
Jason Hartman 6:30
Wow, 35,000 victims, and so you represented 1600 of them, probably one of the largest groups, but they all I’m surprised they do they all get splintered up and have to do their own thing to go after him. Why wasn’t it a class action?
Helen Davis Chaitman 6:43
There’s a bankruptcy liquidation pursuant to the securities Investor Protection Act. And there’s a trustee in the liquidation who has represented the investors in order to collect money to pay them back. And unfortunately, all he has recovered is About $10 billion out of a loss of 64.8 billion. So it, it’s only about 16 cents on the dollar of all the losses that have been suffered. I have represented the Madoff victims in several different kinds of lawsuits that I have pursued in the hopes of being able to enhance the recovery. But if my success rate representing major victims were typical of my practice, I wouldn’t be practicing law anymore.
Jason Hartman 7:26
So so the success rate is low. You’re saying and why why is that? I mean, is it just because he hid the money? Is it because he’s spent the money? I mean, 16 cents on every dollar is in the prior? I mean, there was a lot of math that had to be done to unwind the Ponzi scheme in terms of clawing money back from investors who were paid out, right.
Helen Davis Chaitman 7:47
Well, I actually am defending about 95 club back actions because i think that i think that they’re cruel number one, and number two, I think they’re impermissible under the law as it has existed. For the last 400 years now whether ultimately the Second Circuit Court of Appeals will sustain them is an open question. But I think if the court follows the law as it should, then these cases will ultimately be dismissed. I’m talking about the clawback cases that have been filed against innocent investors who were duped. I have, for example, a client who is 95 years old and retired physician who drew down on his IRA account after he became 70 and a half. And over the 20 odd years that he did that before Madoff confessed he took out more money than he had put in as one would expect. That’s the whole purpose of an IRA that you invest in the stock market and you build up a nest egg on which you can rely in retirement. So this poor man retired, took out money took out more than he put in, and he’s been sued by the trustee for a million and a half dollars. Now. He has a home, which he’s lived in his entire adult life and if He loses this lawsuit, he will lose his home in his late 90s. And that is, in my opinion. Absolutely. Cool.
Jason Hartman 9:09
Well, there’s a good case to be made for what you’re saying. Did he buy the home with proceeds from the made off investments as an early an early paid out investor?
Helen Davis Chaitman 9:18
No, No, he didn’t. He lived in the home long before he retired. So he was earning income as a physician, bought his home, raised his family in it lives there with his wife, and then he lost his investment. And now he’s being sued and he’ll lose his home if he loses this lawsuit.
Jason Hartman 9:35
Wow. That’s something else. You know, that is a good testimony for why you should have your real estate encumbered with mortgages, I guess. Wow. There’s something else
Helen Davis Chaitman 9:47
is from that?
Jason Hartman 9:47
Yeah. What should we know what what do people maybe not know about made off that came out? I mean, you had deep involvement, you have deep knowledge of this case. We’ve all heard about it in the media. we’ve all read about it, etc. What are some of the things we might not know?
Helen Davis Chaitman 10:03
Well, the most important thing for listeners to learn is something that nobody so far has told them. And this is the subject of my book. Bernie Madoff is one of these people that you meet in life who, if they have a choice of doing something in a legal way, or an illegal way, they just instinctively do it in the illegal way. He would have been a small time crook, had it not been for the backing of JPMorgan Chase. And that is, in my opinion, the most important lesson that people can learn, because JP Morgan Chase, recognized that made up was committing crimes in the early 1990s. And instead of closing his account down, which they had an obligation to do, and reporting him to the federal government, which they had an obligation to do, they figured out how they could make money off the crime, and they harbored made up for over 20 years. Now he could never have swindled 35,000 people had he not been associated with a major financial institution, JP Morgan Chase gave him the credibility that he needed in order to defraud so many thousands of people.
Jason Hartman 11:16
That is just stunning. So I have no doubt I wouldn’t put it past JP Morgan with all the other stuff that in any of the banksters, frankly, that came out in the financial crisis. What did they do? I mean, first of all, how would they know? Would they just have to monitor the balances going in and out of accounts and have to say, hey, this just doesn’t make sense. I mean, is the bank responsible for doing all that math on someone’s bank account or what? How would they know this?
Helen Davis Chaitman 11:45
In 1970, at a time when we had people in Washington in Congress, who actually fulfilled their political responsibilities, Congress recognized that in order to ferret out financial frauds, protect the public, the government needed the cooperation of financial institutions. And so they enacted a statute called the Bank Secrecy Act. And the Bank Secrecy Act requires banks to monitor their customers accounts. The phrase that’s used is know your customer. A bank officer has an obligation to understand the customer’s business to monitor the account for activity which is not indicative of the known purpose of the customer’s business. And if the bank officer believes that a crime has been committed, the bank has an obligation to close the account and notify the federal government of what it has found now early on JP Morgan Chase, which had a glass bottom boat view of Madoff’s crimes because he had different lines of businesses, but the only business he maintained through JPMorgan Chase was the fraudulent bill. He was supposed to be in in the investment advisory business. JPMorgan Chase, so a billions of dollars coming into the account. They were checks from the upstate New York plumbers pension fund. They were checks from universities, they were checks from investment clubs. JPMorgan Chase saw that money coming into the account. It never saw $1 spent to purchase a security. Wow. And in fact is,
Jason Hartman 13:26
yeah, that’s pretty bad.
Helen Davis Chaitman 13:28
In the period from 2003 to 2006, for which I have the information made I’ve kept on deposit at JPMorgan Chase three to $6 billion. Now, you’re too young to remember this, but I remember when you’d get a toaster in Manhattan if you opened up a deposit account with $1,000
Jason Hartman 13:51
you’d be where you go.
Helen Davis Chaitman 13:55
What do you get if you leave and this is before the Fed was dumping money out the window. The banks This was you know, before 2008, what do you get if you leave three to $6 billion on deposit? The bank had free use of that money.
Jason Hartman 14:11
Wow, that’s just it’s just startling. So Madoff didn’t even attempt to act like he was running a legitimate investment business by buying some securities. I mean, it seems like he would have, he would have purchased a token amount just to, you know, have that have the deniability factor If nothing else,
Helen Davis Chaitman 14:32
he didn’t even set up the structure. And the interesting thing is that he had been thrown out of Bankers Trust because he was running an illegal check hiding operation with one of his henchmen a man named Norman Levy, he was thrown out of Bankers Trust and he went across the street to what was then Chemical Bank and later became part of JPMorgan Chase. And if he’d been thrown out of Chemical Bank, he would have had a really hard time because probably at that point, no other bank would have taken him so he had a Tremendous amount of risk in making sure that JPMorgan Chase allowed him to continue. And they did. And he incentivize them. He paid them a lot of money. He left a huge amount of money. Just think about it. Here’s a guy who’s supposed to be a genius on Wall Street. And he leaves three to $6 billion in his bank.
Jason Hartman 15:17
Right, right. In other words, it’s uninvested. You’re saying, right, that’s the point.
Helen Davis Chaitman 15:22
Yeah, yeah. It’s an outright bribe.
Jason Hartman 15:24
Unbelievable. That’s just it’s just disgusting. It really is. I would be surprised that you can you can write this book without getting sued by JP Morgan. I mean, have they rattled the saber at all?
Helen Davis Chaitman 15:37
Well, that’s such an interesting question. And clearly that would have been a major problem for me because JP Morgan, Chase spends billions of dollars not only paying fines, but also litigating. And, you know, if he hires the best lawyers in the country, and it hires them in hordes, but and I certainly could never afford to litigate against JPMorgan Chase. But the interesting thing is that the the claim that they could assert, in theory would be a libel claim that what I wrote was inaccurate. And, in fact, that’s why I have 1100 and 43 footnotes in my book, because I don’t want anyone to have any doubt about the source of my information. And virtually every sentence in that book has a link to the source and people can read the source material. If they have the Kindle version, they can write to it and read the source material. I am very comfortable that there isn’t a statement in my book unless I’m quoting Bernie Madoff that I can’t vouch for interest. In fact, I have on my website, JP Madoff calm. In the center of the homepage, I have a roulette wheel, and each slice of the roulette wheel is another fine settlement or penalty that JPMorgan Chase has paid out in the last five years. years, they have paid out $36 billion in fines and settlements for violating live or the London interbank rate for for manipulating life or they they paid out. They pled guilty to two felonies with respect to the Madoff case and paid a big fine, that there isn’t a law that they have not broken in the last five years, but just
Jason Hartman 17:25
just to be in balance. Okay, not that it’s certainly not excusable, but to be in balance. I mean, they’re all all of these banks and securities firms do this stuff. I mean, Merrill Lynch, seems like they’re at the center of every other scandal. They’re paying out huge fines, it’s part of their business plan to pay fines. I mean, it’s just absurd look at BFA, of course, countrywide. You know, Mozilla gets a slap on the wrist, you know, pay a few million dollars and it’s pocket change to him. This is just, it’s just disgusting, isn’t it?
Helen Davis Chaitman 17:56
Jason? I couldn’t agree with you more. I could have written my book about banking. America about Goldman Sachs, about HSBC about Citi group. But here’s the thing that just is so important for people to understand. We have allowed our elected officials to act like whores. They accept money to look the other way. And nobody’s protecting the public. We have now BMS financial institutions that are organized very much like the Gambino crime family. Their profit picture is to figure out what law they can break. They know that they will have to, after ultimately give a small percentage of their profits back to the federal government when they’re prosecuted for it or when they negotiate a settlement. But we have a president in the White House, we have an attorney general in the Department of Justice. We have the Securities and Exchange Commission, we have the entire house of representatives and the entire Senate. Nobody is except for Bernie Sanders. Nobody is willing to stand up and tell it like it is. The American people are being totally victimized by these behemoth,
Helen Davis Chaitman 19:08
immoral financial institutions. I couldn’t
Jason Hartman 19:11
agree more. It’s absolutely disgusting. And we didn’t even make it up to the Federal Reserve level. That’s another discussion. That’s a completely different discussion. Bernie Sanders, I like what he’s saying. But the problem is, I feel that his solutions will be a disaster because he’ll just make government larger. And in the the crux of this problem, to my thinking, is that government has Wall Street owns government, banks own the government, the pharmaceutical companies own the government, the private prison industry owns the government. You know, it’s just disgusting. I mean, we either we either have to somehow just end lobbying, which the original idea of that was good on its face, you know, gives people access to the government right? Or just make the government smaller because the bigger it is, the bigger the corruption. It just seems. Like corruption is proportionate to the size. Why do we have a whole industry of people that are just constantly at government’s door for a handout or a favorable law? Or I mean, it’s disgusting. You know, it seems like it’s just the only thing you can do to fight it is the size, you know, that better ideas would be appreciate. But that’s my simplistic idea.
Helen Davis Chaitman 20:25
Right or to prohibit
Helen Davis Chaitman 20:29
campaign financing. Well be is, you know, if you, you know, a lot of people make excuses for Obama because he had a difficult time dealing with Congress, but he ran the executive branch of the government and, and he The buck stops with him. The idea that Eric Holder would mouth such an absurd concept that the banks are too big to fail, and therefore, the criminals within them have to stay at their jobs. They don’t.
Helen Davis Chaitman 20:57
I mean, how could someone even say that with a straight It’s mind boggling. It really is.
Jason Hartman 21:01
And the fact that these corporate, you know, if corporations, they get all the rights of people, right, but they can’t go to jail. You can’t put JP Morgan in jail. You know, I mean, JPMorgan Chase, you know, you can’t do that. Right. It’s an epically disgusting scenario. We have it has Obama furthered wall street crime. I mean, he’s supposed to be the people’s president, right?
Helen Davis Chaitman 21:25
Absolutely. He has, he has, in my opinion, he has done an absolutely horrendous disservice to the public. Because when you think about it, where does all the money from Wall Street come from? It comes from cheating every single American. But, you know, JPMorgan Chase does business with 50% of American households, and they are the masters of mortgage fraud, credit card fraud. And you know, one of my favorites is you’ll get a kick out of this. They paid 370 $5 million to settle a claim that they defrauded their credit card holders to whom they offered a credit monitoring service. And it came out that they and people signed up for it, and they would charge for it and they paid for it. And the business plan had two parts. One part was the how much they would charge for it. And the other part was what they would give the customers who paid for the service. They never develop the second part of the business plan. They charge for it. But they never got around to giving the customers any service for
Jason Hartman 22:25
lievable. Yeah,
Helen Davis Chaitman 22:27
and the funny thing is, it’s contagious because I just noticed two weeks ago that HSBC just settled for the same, they did the same thing. They probably saw that JPMorgan Chase had done this, and they figured they’d give it a run. And who are the victims? They’re all it’s you and me and everybody else who is still doing business with JPMorgan Chase,
Jason Hartman 22:44
or, or any of the big banks probably, you know, you’d like you said you could have written a book about any of them pretty much. I gotta say, I love this wheel on your website, everybody. You’ve got to go to JP made off.com and sign up Victims if you want the direct link, you click on this we’ll live for victims mortgage backed securities and it shows the amount what the amount they paid out to these victims or the amount of the litigation, the settlement or what was
Helen Davis Chaitman 23:14
the amount that was paid out. And all of that information is taken directly from JPMorgan Chase’s SEC filings, unbelievable
Jason Hartman 23:20
municipal bond buyers, you know, they just keep veterans. Just incredible. This is disgusting. 650 $9 million. They paid a federal government $45 million fine to settle charges. This is just it’s insane. I hope you do this for all the banks and big brokerage firms, because it’s just it’s just really, really absurd. What else do you want people to know? I mean, how do we fix this? What’s the solution?
Helen Davis Chaitman 23:49
The solution is I think to elect someone like Bernie Sanders. I don’t think that hailer I think Hillary is justice to Wall Street.
Jason Hartman 23:57
So bomber he’s an absolute criminal. is a criminal?
Helen Davis Chaitman 24:02
Well, she’s certainly tied to Wall Street. And I mean, Obama should not have been tied to Wall Street except for the fact that he accepted a fortune and campaign contributions from the Wall Street firms. And of course Hillary has as well. And I don’t think that Donald Trump will be any different. I don’t think that there there’s any candidate other than Bernie Sanders, who would have made a difference. And while I agree with you that he if Bernie Sanders were elected, and that doesn’t seem like a possibility at all, but if he were elected, he could not do anything unless the House and the Senate were repopulated with people who didn’t evaluate legislation, but based on how much they were paid to vote one way or the other. We basically have a Christian Congress. That’s the way I think about
Jason Hartman 24:48
it with the cutting Congress. That’s a great way to put it. Yeah,
Helen Davis Chaitman 24:51
right. Nothing matters except How much will you pay me to vote for your bill? And there’s no no one can compete with the large corporations. They never was anyone who could compete with the large corporations. It’s just we used to have people in Congress who had some kind of ethical spirit about what their what they weren’t they were doing
Jason Hartman 25:08
well. But another part of the problem is these, these career politicians, you know, if they if they could only be there for 468 years, and they couldn’t form these deep relationships with it with it with the money, but you know, the money stream the lobbyists coming in that that would help right? term limits, you know, just just limit their time. They’re,
Helen Davis Chaitman 25:32
what I would what I would be in favor of is one term, only one term. That’s it, love it. No campaign financing. So I think that’s the best way to clean it up. But what I wanted to finish saying on Bernie Sanders was this if if he were elected, and I recognize he wouldn’t be, but if he had, if he was next time
Jason Hartman 25:50
if he if he sticks around long enough.
Helen Davis Chaitman 25:55
But the thing is that he would control the executive branch of the government and you know, the ones thing that the banksters on Wall Street haven’t yet figured out is how to pay someone else to serve their prison sentences. And if if Department of Justice had simply put away three or four of the top would have sent a message, yeah, perhaps it would have been a ripple effect on Wall Street, all of a sudden, things would have been cleaned up. They’re not willing to spend their own time in jail.
Jason Hartman 26:21
Yeah, yeah, that’s absolutely right. I mean, this whole financial crisis, I mean, these banksters they took down the world, the whole world economy, countries, Iceland went bankrupt over this. I mean, it’s just insane how, how big the, the damages are, well, isn’t was not not a single person in jail. I really, after all that,
Helen Davis Chaitman 26:50
now, the financial institutions are 10 times more powerful than they were in 2007.
Jason Hartman 26:57
It’s, it’s really, it’s really discouraging. Hi, I hope we see some changes. The The only hope I think we really have is is just this alternative media talking about this stuff. You don’t hear much of it on the mainstream media Do you?
Helen Davis Chaitman 27:12
Well, that’s very funny, Jason. I just have a little story that I can tell you. I was invited onto opening bell Maria Bartiromo show. And the I actually was about to go on vacation. I bought all of Maria’s books and I read them on vacation, I was all prepared to talk to her. And she, she didn’t. neither she nor her producer asked me in advance what I was going to talk about. She introduced me and said we have Helen shape and she’s the leading lawyer for the mayo victims. And it’s six years since Bernie Madoff confessed. And Helen, why don’t you tell us what you’re working on? I said, Well, as a matter of fact, where we I’m suing JPMorgan Chase.
Jason Hartman 27:50
She said suing JP Morgan, let’s pause for a commercial from JPMorgan Chase.
Helen Davis Chaitman 27:56
After two minutes and 44 seconds she called an emergency commercial. I could hear Someone’s screaming in her earpiece oh
Jason Hartman 28:01
my god that’s just
Helen Davis Chaitman 28:03
physically ejected from the 42nd story window. Believe me, I would have been Wow,
Jason Hartman 28:07
that is that is mind boggling. It really is. Well, Helen, this has been a fascinating discussion. give out your website, you know, maybe for your law firm too, but certainly for the book, which we gave out. But whatever you’d like to people to know,
Helen Davis Chaitman 28:20
for the book is sold on amazon.com. If you’re a member of Amazon Prime, you can get the Kindle version without charge. And as I said, it has all of the source material, it’s, it’s, it’s well worth no charge. You’ll learn an awful lot pretty good bit about how you can be cheated by America’s biggest financial institutions. And the book is also available online as well. Fantastic,
Jason Hartman 28:43
Helen, please do that in an audio book, you will reach a whole nother audience. So please turn it into audio as well. I hope a lot of people buy and read your book, and certainly go to your website to spin that wheel because that is just awesome. And again, that’s JP made off comm slash victims. You’ll just take two minutes to go there. It’ll blow your mind. This is a fantastic idea to have the Wheel of Fortune there. So yeah, fantastic. Good stuff. Helen. Thanks for joining us.
Helen Davis Chaitman 29:14
Well, thank you so much for having me, Jason. It was a pleasure.
Announcer 29:17
This show is produced by the Hartman media company All rights reserved for distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www dot Hartman media.com or email media at Hartman media.com. Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax legal real estate or business professional for individualized advice. opinions of guests are their own. And the host is acting on behalf of Platinum properties, investor network, Inc. exclusively.
