Jason Hartman welcomes economist and former radio show host of It’s All About Money, Bill Tatro. They talk about golf and tennis and how they both work in a Keynesian world. Jason and Bill also discuss getting out of debt through inflation and how Barrack Obama destroyed the middle class.

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Welcome to creating wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program, Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven’t thought of before and a new slant on investing fresh new approaches to America’s best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. He’s been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 states and 17 cities, this program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to financial freedom, you really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 0:56
Hey, welcome to the creating wealth show. This is your host Jason Hartman. This is episode number 526 526 already, and I am officially moved into my new place in La Jolla, California. I never thought I would become a resident of the Socialist Republic of California again, but here I am sticking it to the man. Yes, I moved to California to actually take advantage of a tax break. I wonder if that is a Guinness World Record. I may be the first person in history to move to California to save on taxes. I know it’s crazy, weird things happen. But here we are. So anyway, getting settled dealing with Internet Service Providers trying to get my internet set up the handyman is here. He agrees with me about all this California stuff that I was just ranting about. Anyway, you know, what amazes me is that is technologically advanced as our world isn’t as convenient, as so many things are nowadays. Whether it be shopping it on Amazon, etc, etc. How is it so difficult to deal with these companies that provide cable and internet services? Oh, wait, I know. They staffed the call centers with incompetent people. And they have near monopolies. And they just like the Wall Street banksters and the other crooks on Wall Street. Guess what? They have lobbyists. So they’re in bed with all the regulators so they can maintain their semi monopolies and give terrible service. Okay, there’s my rant for today. You always get one from me, you know that. Our guest today will be bill Teatro. And he’s back on the show he was on. Oh, I don’t know, maybe four or five dozen episodes ago. I think it’s about maybe 4050 episodes ago, something like that. He’s back on to talk about the economy today and some interesting stuff. He’s a very interesting guy.

So without further ado, let’s get to him. But oh, wait a sec. There’s one more thing. Venture Alliance people by the way, a bunch of you have recently signed up. We’re gonna have an awesome weekend. We start Friday evening, seven o’clock hotel, Palomar in San Diego. And it’s a super swanky hotel. And yes, we took care of your hotel for you. It’s our first event for the venture Alliance. So your hotel is on us. We’re just going to have an awesome time. So we’ll see a Friday evening, as far as what to bring and what to wear, you know, business casual, and then casual clothing, bring a jacket, maybe a sweatshirt, that kind of stuff. We’re going to be doing some amazing things. We’re going out on a big 54 foot yacht, we are going to do some paragliding. It’s going to be an awesome weekend. But most importantly, we’re going to look at great investment opportunities. Really excited about some we’ve got a couple of guest speakers too. So it’s just going to be an awesome weekend. So we will see a Friday venture Alliance members and guests I know we’ve got several people that came as a guest as well. So their response has just been terrific. Better than I thought it would. This is our inaugural event. So we look forward to seeing you Friday. Let’s get to our guest Bill tatro. We’ll see on Wednesdays episode. But here’s bill.

It’s my pleasure to welcome Bill taitra. Back to the show. He’s an economist. He’s a columnist for townhall.com. And he is the author of the it’s all about money newsletter, publisher of white papers, former radio show hosts for over 30 years and numerous media appearances. So it’s just great to have him back on to talk about the economy, where things are going and how they impact us as investors. Bill. Welcome back. How are you?

Bill Tatro 4:43
Well, Jason, thank you for having me. It’s always a pleasure. You didn’t put one thing in the bio, trying to work on a very bad golf game.

Jason Hartman 4:51
Well, there you go. You know, it’s interesting, by the way, I don’t know if you’ve noticed this or read any of the articles about it, but but golf is really Sliding. In fact, it’s a pretty amazing slide in popularity. So you ought to be getting a lot lower prices on your greens fees out there. Because one article cited, it was talking about how Generation Y the millennial generation, which is the largest generation in American history, the largest demographic cohort, slightly larger than the baby boomers in the they’re just not taken up the game. And in the last 10 years, golf is measured in not greens fees, but number of games played, I guess, it’s down over 35% in the last 10 years, that’s a pretty significant thing for all those golf course owners with all that real estate and all that overhead. You know, maybe you have a commentary on that, by the way.

Bill Tatro 5:45
Well, I think you’ve really hit on something that is very significant. And golf is just one of the what we’ll call it a sidebar, yes. From from a golf stamp standpoint, the days of the old fashion. Oh, I don’t know, remember Caddyshack? bushwood. And, you know, get the shine on my shoes and all the rest. So, in a sense, those days are gone. And because when you look at this millennial generation, and this is what’s interesting, because I think this is a good topic for today’s show. Because when you look at this millennial generation, they’re kind of breaking the mold for a lot of things. And, and not just in golf, because when you say golf, right, so golf was designed to flow a particular way. Okay, big golf course, big clubhouse, you know, to the afloat, etc, lots of real

Jason Hartman 6:39
estate, lots of overhead,

Bill Tatro 6:41
a lot of real estate and, and all the rest of it. But now let’s take it a little further. The whole structure in most communities has been built on this particular premise. kid goes to high school, he goes to college, he gets out of college, he gets a job, he comes to the community, he gets married, he buys this first house, he has a kid, then he buys another house, he has a couple more kids, he’s ingrained in the community. And the tax Foundation, the base of the community is predicated on that. I’ve seen many, many models in various communities, not only towns and villages, but cities around the United States, where they based their their income stream, their tax flow, predicated on this increasing tax base. And it’s not the 80 year old guy who’s now buying another house, it’s the 25 3035 year old, you ask a millennial today. First of all, if he has a job, because he graduated, the 25 year old graduated from college doesn’t have a job. Secondly, where do you live? Well, you might live in an apartment, or as we’ve seen, many of them are living in mom and dad’s house. What about buying a home? Well, buying a home that was asked about 65%? I don’t really think that’s going to be in my in my plans in the future. So basically, what does that do to the model that a town has built on this tax base? It just kills it because not only is you got income coming in for the services of that community, but also incoming income coming in to pay for the pensions of the people who work in IT community. Now, all of a sudden, this the incomes not there. The pensions are underfunded. And now all of a sudden social services aren’t there, cops, health, whatever. And so the whole thing, so I lay it out, you know, I’m not saying that this is right, wrong, or indifferent. It’s just what it is. That’s the way it is right now.

Jason Hartman 8:42
It’s really quite a change. And one of the things these articles and I’ve seen a few articles about it, they’ve been citing is that of course the game is very expensive. But you know, people don’t have five and a half hours to play anymore. You know, the world is just moving so quickly nowadays. I would love to see a resurgence in tennis Actually, I’m kind of wondering why that game ever lost its popularity? I don’t know, maybe I just loved the tennis outfits of the girls. You know it That was a great game.

Bill Tatro 9:10
Well, you know, as we get older, we don’t want to spend five, six hours on the golf course. And maybe we want to spend a little time on the, on the the tennis courts and, and we’ll see but I mean, you know, to my to my other point when when you’re looking at this this world that we’re looking at, there just a tremendous amount of changes, the dynamics and the models, this is where Keynesian comes in. And this as an economist, I always have to throw this in. Because we live in a Keynesian world.

Jason Hartman 9:39
Oh, very Keynesian, it’s all it’s all Keynesian. You know, Bill, it strikes me keep keep your thought there but it just strikes me that whenever the the the big g whatever, Ge Ge you know, g seven g 20. You know, whatever it is at the moment whenever they meet, and whenever other world leaders and central bankers meet in Davos and all around the world. The summit’s they only have one bullet in the gun. It’s QE ma’am. It’s just increase the money supply. That’s about all they’ve got, you know, it’s Keynesianism baked in the system. It’s just through and through. Right.

Bill Tatro 10:13
Oh, there’s, there’s no question about that. Let’s, let’s keep it then in your context of golf to tennis adventure. Alright. So in the Keynesian world, if a golf course is failing, well, in the in the normal, capitalistic world, okay, free market capitalism, the golf course fails, we don’t it goes under maybe somebody buys a real estate, put some house but there’s a change. There’s the evolution, if you fail, you fail. But in the Keynesian world, what and then tennis takes over, let’s say, or in the Keynesian world, it says, No, we believe that the business cycle cannot operate on its own, it has to be aided continually by the federal government or a government in general, right, whether it’s European government, whatever it is, and the government has to aid in there. And so that’s why, you know, as we saw, we didn’t see GM go under, we didn’t see Goldman Sachs go under, or Merrill or some of these others, what we saw was government riding to the rescue. So if we were to say, Okay, um, let’s let’s let free market capitalism go, then those things would have gone under, we would have been much better on the road to recovery.

Jason Hartman 11:27
Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we all we’ve done is make it worse by kicking the can down the road. No question.

Bill Tatro 11:32
That’s right. So here you have in the in the in the golf. Okay, so you and I agree are solely so golf fades, and maybe maybe tennis comes back or something else comes back and takes its place. But in the Keynesian world, the owner of the golf course would go to the government say, Oh, no, wait a minute, I think I need a QE for my golf course. I need an infusion of four or five $6 million to keep me going. Thank you very much. So when you look at it that way, that’s what’s happened. That’s where we are. And then you look at, well, who gets that benefit? Well, the guy who wrote the check to keep the politician in power. And so now we see how the money flows. Very interesting, dynamic we live in today. Jason?

Jason Hartman 12:14
Yeah. It’s it’s really, it’s really interesting. And there’s all these deals, and it’s just too complicated. You know, the, the free market can’t do its thing, because he got all these side deals and all of this, ah, gosh, it’s just, it’s just absurd. You know, and they did none of it ever really works. You know, and it really just doesn’t. You’ve got a blog post about the millennials strength. And, you know, there’s been so much talk about this generation, it’s so important. And maybe people listening think well, Jason, and Bill, why are you talking about this? You know, I’m a baby boomer, I’m 53 years old. What does this mean to me? Well, it means a lot to you. This is very significant, because as as these millennials, 80 million or so of them slightly larger than the baby boomer generation, move through, you know, the things that they’re going to do household formation and stuff. It affects the real estate market, they’re saddled with huge student loan debt, about 1.2 trillion with a T dollars, not dischargeable. in bankruptcy, you never get a second chance on that student loan debt. I think they’re going to be renters for a long time. I’ll tell you that much. I’m not sure I have well developed thoughts on how they interplay with the stock market, and the other financial markets, but boy, I you know, delaying household formation, delaying marriage, wanting to be mobile go where the jobs are, etc. The Oh, any any more thoughts, since we’re kind of talking about the millennials?

Bill Tatro 13:42
Oh, yeah, I wrote a piece and it came out in town hall today. And I said, You know, I did my poll of millennials. And I said, you know, the, there’s a, an organization that came out and they look at the students, and they do the students from about 15, up to 25, all over the world. And our students have continually are sliding. And we’re lucky if we’re in the top third of anything. And that was from the last poll that came out in 2012. I’m anxious to see what’s gonna come out for 2015 will be in early 2016. But I said in my piece, I said, you know, the one thing you have to understand is the millennials understand finance. They really do. They understand it. Well, and then I did the poll, and I asked questions, and I said, I talked to about 50 different millennials. I said, Tell me what you think about college? Well, it’s a place to go. I want I can if I can stay there as long as I can stay where mom and dad pays for it, or the government pays for it. Next question. What about your student debt? Well, it’s something that I probably will never have to pay back because the taxpayers are going to end up paying it. What about jobs? jobs, there’s no jobs for me, because in my particular field, I’m an anthropologist drama this room that and as long as I live in mom and dad’s basement, I Don’t need a jab anyway.

Jason Hartman 15:02
Hey, Bill I got I got to share one more year poll questions with the audience here. What about the stock market? Answer. A gamblers game played by suckers were only the 1% wins. That’s That’s according to your poll. I love that answer. Yeah.

Bill Tatro 15:16
And that’s it. And when you look at it, then they’re not going to buy houses because they’ve seen how housing can be overpriced. Ben Bernanke. He says it never went down. What’s

Jason Hartman 15:24
interesting about their psychology is look at the stereotypical American dream was that you know, you would you would buy a house and set down roots. But we live in the most mobile country in the world, our population is more mobile than any other population. Or at least, you know, barring some nomadic tribe, okay. But, and also a lot of these millennials, their formative years were at a time when they saw their parents lose their house, they saw their parents overleveraged over encumbered. And you know, they’re kind of shy about that thing. I don’t think that dream loops for them anymore, like it did for the baby boomers and, and even my generation the Gen Xers.

Bill Tatro 16:05
No, I think you’re absolutely right. And I put in there, and I did it facetiously because I asked students and I asked people who are right up into the 30s. I said, Okay, tell me about your portfolio. And invariably, 99% of all laugh. And I remember one girl, she says, there was a group, about four of them were sitting around, and I was talking to them. And she says, Well, I got an iPad, the other one goes all I got the iPhone, and one of the guys goes, Well, I got a six pack of Coors Light. That’s our portfolio.

Jason Hartman 16:36
Yeah, it is. It is interesting. No, but it’s

Bill Tatro 16:40
it’s also and again, I come back to the point, if you’re basing if you’re a Keynesian, you operate on models, and your models, you never change your model. One wonders, there will be I believe, a QE four that will be in our, in our in our future. Because when the model doesn’t work, and Austrian economists, like I am will go back and change the way you do things. But the Keynesian says, Well, if it’s not working, it’s because we haven’t done enough of it. if if if we’re not out of debt, it’s because we haven’t gone into debt enough.

Jason Hartman 17:15
Here. Let me give you another metaphor for that. It’s if the fire is burning, let’s throw a little gasoline on it. And if it doesn’t put it out, let’s throw some more on it. And it just makes it worse and worse. But you know, it’s just gotta pay the piper someday. Right?

Bill Tatro 17:30
Well, that’s that’s correct. And that’s, that’s one of the issues. And I know, you know, in your program, and you talk a lot finance and how to make people wealthier and protect their wealth, they have to realize that there is no solution to this problem when you have the same philosophy. And whether it’s a new Congress, a new new house, a new Senate, a new president, when the philosophy stays the same, it’s irrelevant. Who’s in there, quite honestly.

Jason Hartman 17:56
Yeah, it really is. Because they’re all Keynesians, even Reagan, you know, it’s just all of them operate in the context of the Keynesian. The Keynesian myth. It’s unbelievable. How revered this guy is still. I mean, it’s just amazing. You know, whatever doesn’t work. Let’s just keep doing some more of it.

Bill Tatro 18:15
Yeah. And he’s gone through cycles. I mean, since since his book came out in the, in the 30s. And, you know, he’s, he’s come through various cycles, and sometimes, and right now he’s revered until he won’t be and what won’t be is ultimately, Keynesianism ends in some really bad things, not the least of which is war. And we’re starting to see that internationally as

Jason Hartman 18:36
almost why it ends in war. put that together for the listeners, if you would?

Bill Tatro 18:40
Well, because what happens is, is that Keynesianism as a philosophy worldwide, will separate the haves from the have nots. And so what you’ve got is you’ve got the 1% becoming more and more wealthy, and more and more in power, and you have people the middle class getting less and less and less and less around the world. What happens then is there is this this ferment in different countries. And what we see is out of this well in Europe right now and in Italy and Greece, and like that we have youth unemployment over 50%. What they should be afraid of is somebody emerging from that youth group as a leader that says to them, we need to take our country over, we need to take our country back, we need to be to do these different things. And the only way we can do that is seize control, not at the ballot box, but through the bullets. classic case of that was Adolf Hitler in the 1930s. And so you see these people who rise and then all of a sudden, it’s the haves don’t want to have that step. What have what the haves have. It sounds like a little jibberish there. But basically it ends up in that type of conflagration. I can see it I’m watching it now whether it is in, in the Ukraine, whether it’s in the the the activity, In the South China Sea with Russia and China having naval operations for the first time in history, our kind of hooking in with Japan and a little tighter and that’s in that area. But these things are happening. Keynesianism always ends in some type of conflagration.

Jason Hartman 20:16
Yep, very interesting. And, you know, socialism, communism, which are basically part of that same set of ingredients, if you will, they always end in oppression and death. You know, it’s just mind boggling that the human race hasn’t figured this stuff out yet, but I don’t know. Well,

Bill Tatro 20:33
everybody just goes, you know, solves your problems by going to the mall.

Jason Hartman 20:38
Exactly. Yeah, George Bush, number two saying, you know, when 911 happened, go out and shop some more. It’s just sickening. It really is. It’s amazing. What is your thought on where we’re going? And I just want to first ask you generally, and you’re really good at, you know, nailing down some really interesting, very specific issues on this. But just generally, as I look at the economic landscape, I think there are three basic scenarios. There’s inflation, deflation, and stagnation. And of course, there are, you know, some varieties of all of those. Where does Bill taitra think we’re going?

Bill Tatro 21:14
Well, bill to HR has been a deflation is for a long time. And back in the beginning of 2014, when 68 different economists, of course, I wasn’t one of them that was pulled by both Reuters and Bloomberg, they all said interest rates would be a 4%. By the end of the year, there’s only one way interest rates can go. And that is up because we’re down around the 2% range. Strangely, we see the and now we’ve seen a bump up and we get these, you know, I call them dead cat bounces. But I seen interest rates plummet to areas that people just couldn’t conceive Switzerland, having the first negative 10 year interest rate on their on their sovereign debt. Nobody’s there, then all of a sudden you see Germany, that’s I mean, as the you know, the same thing, they’re down to what point two 8% something along those lines. deflation is is the thing.

Jason Hartman 22:10
So you’re so you’re, you’re still saying that right? You haven’t changed your Yeah, absolutely.

Bill Tatro 22:14
Still saying it just because the money short of doing a helicopter Ben of dropping money, the money that was printed, or we’ll call it created because it wasn’t printed, it was created, never got to the public state and the balance sheets of the banks. It stayed in on the 1% side in the major corporations. And it stayed overseas. I

Jason Hartman 22:39
just want to make sure you address some things before I forget. So first of all, won’t that money ever trickle down? I mean, the 1% they invest they spend, it’s not like they can nobody can really live in a vacuum. Unless you put your money under your mattress. Your Money is doing something always it’s either spending, it’s investing, it’s saving, which is capital formation increasing someone’s balance sheet somewhere, or liability if it’s a bank, because the bank looks at it in reverse. But you know, that isn’t in isolation. If somebody is getting richer. That has to trickle down, doesn’t it? No. No? How come? Okay, so so Arthur Laffer, be damned. Right? Is that what you’re saying?

Bill Tatro 23:18
Let me just tell you why I take this position very quickly, okay. Because when Jason Hartman goes to the grocery store, and he buys a loaf of bread, when Warren Buffett goes to the grocery store in Omaha and buys a loaf of bread, your net worth and his net? Well, maybe yours is the same as his I’m not.

Jason Hartman 23:39
Not quite okay.

Bill Tatro 23:40
But Jason Hartman and his net worth, he’s making a billion dollars every two weeks or three weeks, but he still only buys the one loaf of bread.

Jason Hartman 23:49
I see that on the consumption side. And there’s a there’s a TED speech, a TED talk of a guy who seems like a capitalist who’s apologizing for the sins of capitalism, right? I can’t remember the guys name. But he says that the rich don’t help the economy is his whole thesis. And I think that’s BS. Because, you know, even though Warren Buffett only pays the same and buys the same loaf of bread as I do, in your example, he his money is still doing something. It’s either growing a company which is growing employment. I mean, money can’t do nothing. kennett?

Bill Tatro 24:22
Well, let’s look at Apple, where’s most of Apple’s money? Is it creating jobs here in the United States? Or is it sitting over in overseas where it’s not being taxed? And when they and the money they make you would think that Apple could be one of the biggest, biggest employers in this country? Ge a lot of them and so there’s money coming in there. And yes, I mean, if you take the guy who’s just made his got his million dollar bonus in it, and don’t get me wrong, I am I am a great capitalist. I want people to make as much money as possible and go out and go out and spend it, but we’re not seeing that and how do I know this? Because just take a look at the amount of money and the money that’s flowing through the system. Okay? And you look at that, and you look at the volatility index, the volatility of money, right? And and all of a sudden, we’re back to where we were in the 30s. It’s, it’s just sitting there, it’s not moving. That’s the problem.

Jason Hartman 25:19
But does it eventually have to move I mean, money gets impatient. It burns a hole in people’s pocket, they want to do something with it.

Bill Tatro 25:29
But remember, Jason, a lot of that wealth is tied up in various so called assets, whether it’s that $10 million home that was worth 5 million, whether it’s that that stock, maybe you own LinkedIn, and you have much of your wealth in the LinkedIn stock and you woke up the next morning, and it’s down 27%. A lot of assets are not in actual cash that is sitting there. That’s why tell people one of my biggest things to tell people is make sure you have cash in your house. actual cash, because that is in a deflationary environment can be very, very powerful.

Jason Hartman 26:06
Okay, so So cash from a deflationary environment. That’s interesting. Now, I got to ask you this, though, don’t you think it’s a good business plan for governments and central banks to have inflation? Isn’t that their way out? I mean, when you’ve got all these governments, especially the US that controls the reserve currency, of course, with so much massive debt, don’t they want to be based their own death through inflation?

Bill Tatro 26:33
Oh, there’s no question about that. That’s the only way out is inflation. Problem is let’s look at Japan been trying to inflate for almost three decades now. Can’t get to 2%. Look at Mario Draghi, the head of the European Central Bank, who is trying to now create his own quantitative easing over there to raise inflation. It’s not happening. The main reason Jason, because of that is that you cannot and this is where Keynesians falter, you cannot create you cannot force demand. If I give Jason Hartman, five more credit cards, if I give you then the ability of debt, are you going to go out and spend it?

Jason Hartman 27:15
Well, maybe or maybe not? It depends on who you’re giving it to. Of course, we saw that during the NASA lax financial crisis. But if you if you increase the supply of money, okay, and wages trickle up a bit, if everybody’s got that wealth effect, if the price of their real estate goes up, if the their stock portfolio goes up, you have that wealth effect. People just feel like they’ve got more money to spend. So they spend, so they increase the velocity of money. I’m not saying it’s a good plan. I’m just saying it is a good plan for governments and central banks. I’m not saying it’s like, don’t get me wrong, though. I’m not saying this is rational or logical OR prudent. I’m just saying it’s a good deal for governments and central banks.

Bill Tatro 28:03
Now, Jason, you’re absolutely right in what you’re saying. The unfortunately, that we’re into a time period with people that they’re not doing that we can look back, when gasoline went from $4 a gallon to here in Phoenix paying less than two bucks. The thinking was, oh, look at all this money that’s being saved. From the middle of last year to the end of the year. Look at all this money that the consumer is not putting in the tank he’s got in his pocket. Boy, is he gonna spend it Christmas time. Okay, but he didn’t. It was a disaster. And so consequently, they’re saying, Well, why aren’t the people spending? Why aren’t they going in and spending, and what you’ve got is now you come back, we’re kind of doing this round circle, come back to the millennials, they don’t have jobs, come back to the guy who’s a retiree, he’s done that he’s got money, but he’s being forced if he wants to return to go into the market, because he’s getting zero interest rate policies getting nothing there.

Jason Hartman 29:04
Right. Right, right. And so that’s the big scam that they’ve taken all these people, these millions of people who did the right thing all their life, they save money, they delayed gratification, they created capital formation, which is which is the key to wealth in any society. And they did all that. And they thought they could live off their savings. And you know, invest very conservatively, they could buy bonds, they could have CDs, they could ladder, their CDs, in banks, and live off that money, and they’ve got no return. So they’re being forced to do alternative things, many of them more risky.

Bill Tatro 29:38
Absolutely right. And one could look back if you’re an advisor on Wall Street, and you could say, Yeah, but look at the stock market over the last few years. Boy, if you’d been in there, you’d made yourself a fortune, etc. And you say okay, no, wait a minute, I’m living off this money I need to create an income stream. And most of them aren’t paying I’m gonna have to sell ads. That’s to create my income stream now becomes a very sticky issue here. And if all of a sudden this market does fall apart, are you, Mr. advisor going to say to me? Oh, normally the reaction is Don’t worry, it’ll come back. Except that I’m 7075 years old Mr. advisor, and I don’t have 10 years for it to come back. That’s the problem.

Jason Hartman 30:20
Exactly. Yeah. Well, and the other thing, though, with what’s going on, I mean, some amazing things going on in the field of longevity sciences. Maybe they do have a lot longer. Maybe this is a huge, sweeping socio economic problem or opportunity. I mean, of course, I don’t think many people would mind living longer, but you know, too much life at the end of the money. It’s a good problem to have, but it’s still a problem. Right?

Bill Tatro 30:46
Well, you know, the old adage, I want to die when my last check bounces.

Jason Hartman 30:50
There you go. Yeah. That’s it. And so that’s good. But you know, in terms of that deflation, inflation discussion, if you agree that this is a good plan for governments and central banks, the deflation is savings flippantly. And I think this is silly that they say this. They say things like, well, there are so many deflationary forces that you can’t print enough money, you can’t create enough money to create inflation. Whoa, the amount that you can create or print is unlimited. So that seems like a really specious thing to say, you know it. Of course, you can create inflation, can’t you? I mean, is it? Is there some point when you have? I mean, this is not Japan, when you have the reserve currency of the world? Can’t you inflate it if you want to? I mean, if you want to bad enough, maybe the high IQ people in the Austrians will complain like us will complain, like crazy, but I think you can create inflation, if you want to.

Bill Tatro 31:53
Well, the the problem here, Jason, is that the Federal Reserve under both Ben Bernanke he and and now under Janet Yellen want to create inflation. And so they will lead you to believe that Well, we’re going to raise those interest rates as we get closer and closer to the 2% inflation. And, of course, that the problem is is that you can print all you want, you can you can do that. And unless you want to then distribute it to people. The problem with that is the only one that the only ones that have access to that kind of I’m talking about true access to that money, is we’ll say the so called one percenters are the one 10th of one percenters that can actually go in and utilize and take advantage of those low interest rates.

Jason Hartman 32:40
But But can’t you can’t you if you want to create inflation? Can’t the government just say, look, we’ll increase your section eight housing allowance by 20% will increase your Social Security check by 20%. And boom, aren’t you gonna just see something in the neighborhood of 20%? inflation? If they do that? could very well,

Bill Tatro 32:59
yes. I mean, you could you could turn around and you could just say, Okay, so now, what and what they’re trying to do. All right, let’s take a look at minimum wage. We see that that in the city in New York, and Blasio wants to go to a $15 minimum wage in the city of New York. And so why don’t we just raise it to, I don’t know, $50 an hour. But let’s let’s do that. Let’s take, let’s say, because I get social security, let’s triple my Social Security, I’d be all for that. Of course, I now know I’m going to have to take and I’m probably by my my dollar, McDonald’s is not going to be $10. And sure, it’s all going to love, it’s all going to level up. And that’s where your battle comes in. They’re not going to do that. Because they don’t know. Okay, now we get into a another, another three hour conversation about what people want. If you’re looking at getting and in essence destroying your middle class. This is why I gave Barack Obama a plus people say, Well, how do you rate the president? And I said, I think the guy’s done a fabulous job in it. Okay, don’t don’t I just heard a big deep breath. And

Jason Hartman 34:05
I’m surprised.

Bill Tatro 34:08
No, and I the emails that I got, were unbelievable. Now, let me just say, if you set out to try to say, I’m going to burn down my neighbor’s house, alright. And you publicly say it, or you write a little column about it, or you do and all of a sudden you succeed and you burn down your neighbor’s house. Did you accomplish your goal? Yes, you must give the guy in a pot. You don’t agree with what he’s doing. But he accomplished his goal. It is my contention from day one. If you if you look at the guy’s history, if you read his writings, if you listen to Michelle Obama, who when she first came in and said, our goal is to take your piece of the pie away and give it to somebody else not to increase the size of the pie. They’ve done that, that they’re you know, I’m the first guy that Call this guy a financial terrorist. He is accomplished what his goals are. And his goals were to destroy the middle class and to kind of bring everything into one level. And so when you when you’ve accomplished that your your goal is to get everybody, in a sense dependent upon the government, look at the number of people who are on food stamps today, the number of people in my community who are standing on a street corner with their cardboard sign saying anything helps, is is increasing exponentially. And so when we look at it, there are sometimes philosophies and actions that are being done. That may be contrary to what you want to have happen, or Bill taitra wants to have happen. And so that’s I know, that’s a totally different conversation. But it has to enter into the mix.

Jason Hartman 35:51
Right? Yeah, very interesting. So Bill, where do you think the market is going? When I when I say that I’m talking about the stock market, I just want to make sure our listeners heard that from you before you go.

Bill Tatro 36:02
Okay, you have to understand that I have been consistent all along. And I’ve kind of will ultimately now Harry dent has come into my school. I think the ultimate over the next probably 12 to 24 months is a major collapse in the market. I think that we get down to somewhere around 3500 that’s about a 15,000 point drop, much. Wow. Yeah, much like Japan did back in the early 90s. When it went from 40,000 to 10,000. Actually around 8500 nobody thought that it could ever that could ever happen. And they were talking 100,000 and a neat guy, and it dropped 75% I think the very same thing could happen. They’re gonna fight it. I mean, the Fed and everybody’s gonna

Jason Hartman 36:44
fight it and they’re gonna fight it by more QE right? Yeah, I’m going to try to buy more money creation.

Bill Tatro 36:49
Yeah, but I don’t we don’t live in a vacuum. And I think that there’s going to be the the economies are going to take it in the chin, not just here. But all over the world. Be very interesting to see today. And and the on this Thursday, that the United Kingdom is having an election. That’ll be very interesting to see. And as we watch all this play out, I just think as I said, at the end of the Keynesians, Keynesian philosophy always comes to an end. And I think we’re approaching that sooner rather than later.

Jason Hartman 37:23
Very interesting. Bill, give out your website, tell people where they can find you.

Bill Tatro 37:27
It’s built a tro. That’s t isn’t Tom a T isn’t tomorrow, Bill taito.com. And it talks about I have a company called GPS for life. You can take a look at that. It’s all there. My book is there. My writings are there. Former radio stuff is there. So it’s all there in one spot built a drone, calm. Awesome.

Jason Hartman 37:44
Bill, thanks so much for joining us. It’s always interesting to talk to you.

Bill Tatro 37:48
And it’s always a pleasure being on your show. Jason, thank you once again.

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