On this Flashback Friday episode, Jason Hartman talks about the Facebook IPO scandal wherein Morgan Stanley, and the IPO underwriters share to their big clients the bad quarter that Facebook has been having. They failed to let the financial advisors and their individual clients know. Jason also shares a news clip from Bloomberg and reviews a SWOT Analysis for Investment Property.
This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.
Jason Hartman 0:09
Hey, this is Jason Hartman, thank you so much for joining me. Do you know what day it is? Yes, it is flashback Friday, where you hear the best of the creating wealth show and you hear some good prior episodes, some good review. Remember, we’ve got almost 500 episodes out. And you know what? iTunes doesn’t even hold them all if you’re an iTunes listener, if you are listening on Stitcher, thank you for joining us. So we want to bring you some good review stuff. Now. What’s interesting about flashback Friday, it’s a little scary for me. I got to be very, very candid with you on that. Because you the listener, you get the chance to hold my feet to the fire. Did I make any predictions? Was I right? Was I wrong? I’ve been right about a lot of things, but I’ve been wrong about a few. So you can give me a hard time about that if you wish. But it’s flashback Friday, and we will give you the uncensored Best of the creating wealth show with a prior episode. So let’s dive in. Here we go. Remember, this is not current. It’s flashback Friday.
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman, you’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11, states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in 1000s of real estate transactions, this program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day, you really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 2:11
Today, we’ve got a few things to cover, we’ve got another client case study, you’ve got a lot of good feedback that you guys like those. So I’m glad to keep interviewing clients and so forth, as well as our expert guest authors and such as we have done on so many episodes on the past. But before we get into that, I’m always talking to you about being a direct investor, and maintaining control over your investments. Now, there are a couple of ginormous, if you will, companies out there. And you know, of course, Google and Facebook and these huge, huge companies, they really control so much of our lives and our information in so many ways. And with the Facebook IPO, just about what was that about a month and a half, two months ago. Now. It’s it’s interesting to watch what’s happened with that many people are, you know, there’s much litigation that has come out of that, and many people are crying foul and saying it’s really criminal activity. But of course on on, you know, on Wall Street. I mean, it’s criminal activity ever really punished? Well, not too often. In fact, with the mortgage meltdown and all of the scams that happened on Wall Street starting about three and a half years ago, four years ago, or at least that’s when they came out and became visible to most of us. Nobody has gone to jail yet. Isn’t that amazing to you by now, that after all this time, there has not been a criminal prosecution, at least not that I know of nobody, nobody has gone to jail? Well, actually, you know, in the Enron case, there were criminal prosecutions. So maybe I need to say, nobody has gone to jail out of this last round of Wall Street malfeasance. And when you look at the Facebook IPO, you know, by the way, I thank you to Mario are one of our listeners and clients and a couple of other clients that I can’t remember off the top of my head, who sent me articles on the Facebook IPO, and so forth, and to Aaron, who actually sent this interesting video, and I want to just play a little bit of the audio track of that. And then I want to come back, talk to you about a SWOT analysis, and then go to our case study today and maybe talk about a couple of other things. So I’m just going to play that for you now. And I will be right back afterwards. Remember, you’re listening to flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published every Monday and Wednesday.
‘Audio clip’ 4:38
Now, you mentioned Zynga, which went public, there are quite a few tech companies that have gone public, which are not you just mentioned the the stock price, I mean, which have underperformed pretty much everyone’s expectations of Facebook, I’d be lying. We didn’t bring that up. How has that IPO changed the tech ecosystem?
‘Audio clip’ 4:55
Well, you know, I think in two fundamental ways, the first thing is that it hits ended possibility of anybody else getting public for probably the rest of the year. And I think they may be doing us a favor. And the reason the second thing it did is it exposed in my mind the extreme corruption in the capital formation process and really in Wall Street itself. NASDAQ’s behavior on this in my mind borders on criminal. I think Morgan Stanley’s behavior borders on criminal it appears they made a profit versus incompetent. Oh, no, this was clearly done on purpose. And you watch what all these people have been doing in secondary offerings. Do you think it’s a coincidence that every secondary offering trades down five or every company traced and five or six days before the offering, then they price it down? 15%. And then it pops? It sure looks to me like the underwriters are shorting the stocks. I mean, what I’m saying is I look at all of this. And as a 30 year investor, I think people in Wall Street have just so totally lost track of honesty, that
‘Audio clip’ 5:55
You don’t even want to participate.
‘Audio clip’ 5:57
I’m just saying, Look at the LIBOR effect. I mean, it’s staggering the level. First we had 2008 I mean, if you’re an individual investor, you’re getting picked off 17 ways to Sunday in these poor tech companies. You know, where there is a lot of news and a lot of uncertainty are they’re doing a Bataan Death March because you can create rumors out of nothing. I mean, the the issue at Yelp is some college kid recycled a rumor from a year and a half ago. And it knocked the stock down three bucks, even though it was it was literally ancient history.
‘Audio clip’ 6:31
Roger, I obviously don’t work for the NASDAQ. So I’m not going to become an apologist for the NASDAQ or for Morgan, by the way,
‘Audio clip’ 6:37
nor should you because these are not good people.
‘Audio clip’ 6:39
But what about the presence of high frequency trading, and I’m not saying that they’re not doing them
‘Audio clip’ 6:46
And I’m saying high-frequency trading. High frequency trading is part of the problem. NASDAQ is a member organization, high frequency trading advantages the mastek traders over all other market participants, and allows them to pick off all price arbitrage before it ever hits the market. I mean, that is so fundamentally corrupt. I mean, they basically I mean, look at the profits of these firms. You know, you have their clients are more like Marx now. I mean, you know, I’ve been doing this 30 years, and I can say people say, Oh, isn’t it always been like this? No, it was never like this.
‘Audio clip’ 7:20
Even I know, you were back at T Rowe Price. I mean, you ran
‘Audio clip’ 7:24
Especially not back in those days, okay. I’m saying for all the corruption that took place in the LBO community, and all in the 80s, and in the around, Drexel Burnham, and all that you never had people manipulating home markets, or the deregulation has allowed people to overwhelm any individual market for brief periods of time, and move it. So most of these things aren’t actually trading there, arbitrage is set up by overwhelming amounts of capital, and experienced market observers see this. And none of us know what to do about it. Because the regulators are asleep. They’re cheap that basically what it is, there’s a set of really cruel clear regulations left over from the depression, that affect consumer products like mutual funds, but there’s nothing for hedge funds and nothing for market makers. So they’re just running amok.
‘Audio clip’ 8:13
So if you think the IPO process then is dead, broken, corrupt, as you say, what’s the choice Strategic purchases for the club, that’s clearly
‘Audio clip’ 8:21
that’s the primary one. But what happened with the negotiated the private secondary market for Facebook, and Yelp, and Zynga and Groupon worked very, very well. There are more than 1000 transactions, negotiate. I’m not about to share his post or any of the consumer stuff. But then negotiated transactions look like NASDAQ looked in the old days in the 70s. And there wasn’t one accusation of fraud. There was one IPL and Facebook and 1000s of accusations of fraud. Right? Think about that for a minute. The unregulated person to person market is clean. The so called public market is not. And I personally, I’m, I just think it’s tragic. And like I said, part of what’s tragic is the people doing it don’t seem to realize that most of what they’re doing is wrong. And it’s that it’s destroying our economy.
‘Audio clip’ 9:08
Roger, before the break, you were saying, look, you have 30 years in the business between Wall Street and being a tech investor and you see Wall Street as being corrupt as being broken. The IPO process has been broken. What could have been done differently with Facebook, let’s say if we were back 10 years ago or back 15 years ago, when you say there was actually more honesty in the system. But how would that have played out?
‘Audio clip’ 9:34
See, the difference today is that because of high velocity trading, and because of the lack of regulation of the primary investing of banks, they make so much money from trading, that investment banking, which used to be a super high profit margin business is now an afterthought. So the fees on IPOs 7% used to be so big that people would kill to get a great IPO. Now it’s a rounding error compared to what the The damage they can do in other parts.
‘Audio clip’ 10:03
What would be the worst thing then that went wrong in the Facebook?
‘Audio clip’ 10:06
Well, I would say if there’s a, you know, let’s just say, for example, that there are 25 things you have to get right on an IPO, they blew at least 24 of them. I mean, let’s think about it this way. They allowed people apparently to cancel orders during the quiet period of three days before the deal. I’ve never heard of that ever happening at an IPL before. It was clear NASDAQ systems didn’t work in the morning, they should have canceled the offering first thing in the morning when they couldn’t get it to work, right? When it didn’t match up. They shouldn’t, you know, they should have canceled it. So NASDAQ clearly is at fault for not canceling and postponing the offering. And Morgan Stanley’s at fault for increasing the size of the deal. And the price. With a complete absence of domain,
‘Audio clip’ 10:46
I want to get back to that idea of the price and the valuation. But as far as Facebook, why did they do it, then? Did they just think it would be okay? Or they
‘Audio clip’ 10:55
Of course, I thought it was gonna be. What are you saying? I was naive. I’m looking at this going, how could they possibly dare to screw up the largest tech IPO in history? I mean, this is Facebook, they have 900 million members, you blow this thing. And it’s out there in the public. And eventually the SEC is gonna have to look and when they look, all of these people are going to have to explain 24 horrible decisions in a row.
‘Audio clip’ 11:18
You mentioned the price was the price the valuation obviously now we see what the public markets It was too rich, does this bring up a cautionary tale for other investors and entrepreneurs coming up? You can’t talk too much money from VC because eventually VC has to get it back out investors? Oh,
‘Audio clip’ 11:36
Facebook didn’t take that much money from venture guts. Okay, let’s remember they, they didn’t need much money. I think they’re real. And let’s put it this way. I think the venture capitalists have a lot of explaining to do because they influenced increasing the size of the deal and increasing the price, and then increase their sales in the transaction without sharing that information with everybody else. So clearly, you know, everybody has some problems here. But no. How, why on earth? Would I mean, how could you possibly expect NASDAQ and Morgan Stanley, to do so many things wrong on such a high profile? And then to hear Morgan Stanley actually made a profit the first day, if that’s really true, I mean, that how are they going to explain that?
Jason Hartman 12:21
Just a reminder, you’re listening to flashback Friday, or new episodes are published every Monday and every Wednesday. Isn’t that amazing? though, the the literally the the criminal or legalized criminality that goes on in Wall Street, it’s just beyond ridiculous. And that is why we need to be direct investors and maintain control of our financial future. So we don’t leave ourselves susceptible to the three major problems, you might be investing with a crook, you might be investing with an idiot. assuming they’re honest, assuming they’re competent, they take huge management fees off the top for managing the deal. So we’ve talked about this on many prior episodes. So I won’t dive into it today so much, but on the good side, one way to maintain control is to learn more about how to maintain control. Join us for our Atlanta property tour. And that’s September 28th. Through the 30th at the gorgeous, stunning and swanky Grand Hyatt Hotel in Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgia, we will have the creating wealth, and today’s economy bootcamp all day that Saturday, we’ll have the tour on Sunday. And by the way, just rewind, we’ll have a nice reception for you on Friday evening before we start everything a little social and networking reception before that. So you can register now at Jason hartman.com in the events section. And we’ve got early bird pricing only $197. And the beautiful Grand Hyatt has offered a discounted room block, it does have limited supply, I have to tell you that. And that is just $129 per night for your room. And I think you’ll really enjoy this event. So be sure to join us for the Atlanta property tour. And by the way, I only mentioned it one time, and several of you have signed up already. So thank you for signing up and I look forward to seeing you. At the end of September.
It’s going to be just a fantastic time of learning, laughing enjoying each other’s company networking, and touring as well. So that’ll be great. And our last meet the Masters event in Irvine, California. I did a SWOT analysis. And I might actually share the audio clip of that in the future. But I recently posted the SWOT diagram that we created on my Facebook page, and we got a lot of interaction on it. So thank you for checking that out. And it really just shows you that the SWOT analysis, by the way is something commonly used in business. I learned it originally, maybe 10 years ago in young entrepreneurs organization now called entrepreneurs organization because as all the entrepreneurs Old, they wanted to keep their membership. So they changed the name to eo rather than why eo. And this is affiliated with the young presidents organization. So this SWOT analysis, s w o T stands for strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. And it’s commonly used in business, it’s probably used in the military as well. But here, let’s use it as it applies to income property, and the types of investments we have. So the strengths of course, there are many, they say that income property is ideal. And that is an acronym for all of the benefits of it. But I’ll just share a few of those here. Under strengths in my SWOT analysis, number one cashflow be a cash flow investor, because as a cash flow investor, you’re investing in much more of a quote, sure thing, unquote. Now there’s no Sure thing, of course, but it’s a much more reliable thing than appreciation. If appreciation happens, hey, it’s icing on the cake. But cash flow is pretty darn reliable, actually. And you can exert a lot of control over cash flow. So I love being a cash flow investor for that reason. The other thing is that it’s a fragmented industry. And it has fragmented markets. And this fragmentation, you know, I’m always fond of saying embrace the fragmentation. Most people think this is frustrating, I think it’s a benefit.
The reason it’s such a benefit is because it keeps the Wall Street institutional type investors largely out of our business. And it leaves these high return opportunities for us many times on prior episodes, I’ve shared institutional investments, I’ve talked about them. And I’ve shared the types of cap rates, or capitalization rates and returns that these institutional investors are clamoring for. And, frankly, they’re lousy. And so these are the assets, institutional, large wall street investors are buying, they’re not that great. They’re buying the triple net lease on the Walgreens, or the CDs, they’re buying the big storage facility, the institutional office building asset class, these types of things, big shopping malls, and so forth. And as you can see, the head of Simon properties, they do shopping malls, they’re a shopping mall, manager and developer. And I think he was he Well, he was the highest paid CEO in America. And I think I shared it with you on a prior episode, his income was like $137 million last year. So that business is obviously good for the insiders, but it’s not that good for us. Okay. Again, another example of taking huge management fees off the top, and these lower your returns. So if you invest in any institutional asset class, like a receipt, or real estate, Investment Trust, a fund of any sort, a tick a tenant in common deal t IC, you are, again, going into markets that aren’t very fragmented. And that’s why the institutional investors are there because they can manage them. And it’s, again, not a very good deal for you. But with us, we get to embrace this fragmentation that the institutional investors don’t have the ability to take advantage of remember what Warren Buffett said, just maybe two months ago, he said, Hey, if I could buy a couple million single family homes and figure out how to manage them, I would I think it’s the greatest investment opportunity right now. But the point is, he can’t really figure out how to manage them. Good for us. Huge, huge thing in the strength category, push appreciation.
Now, what do I mean by push appreciation? Well, push appreciation just means that you can add value to the asset, you have the opportunity through your creativity, to add value, by fixing it up by doing certain things to the property that can actually push the appreciation. Now, of course, another opportunity you have is his actual appreciation, just based on the market. But push appreciation is the sort of creative appreciation that you create for a property. Certainly this is done all the time, in apartment buildings, for example, where you can look at multiple different income streams, or you might add a laundry facility and make money off the laundry facility or something like that you might charge for parking, when the current owner that you buy the property from hasn’t been charging for parking. So there again is another example of push appreciation. You could re tenant the building, you could kick your tenants out, remodel the units and raise the rent, push appreciation, another example of it, but again, all things considered. And it’s interesting because I was talking with one of our vendors, actually in Phoenix the other day and I quote him, he said to me, Jason, if I could just do st family homes all day long. That would be my favorite bar none. It is the favorite asset class single family homes, they’re the hardest to institutionalize. And that means the fragmentation opportunity creates the high returns for us. And they are just the best asset class, they’re the most historically proven asset class of all. The other strength is that it’s a physical, tangible asset. So again, it’s not an airy fairy thing. It’s not susceptible to Wall Street’s games and criminal activity. It’s not a house of cards. It’s a physical tangible assets, so huge benefits there. Now let’s look at some of the weaknesses going to the next letter, the W and SWOT repairs, so maintenance cost and repair cost, those things can become a weakness if you don’t manage them properly, if you don’t buy the property properly to begin with. And again, all these weaknesses Well, all except one are things that we help you with. That’s what my company does, is we help you manage these weaknesses through education. And through exerting leverage over the service providers or vendors that are selling you the property and managing the property for you. And then teaching you how to manage them as well through education. Another weakness is vacancy, you have the potential for vacancy. Now this isn’t a very big problem anymore. A few years ago, it was it was much more of a problem. But nowadays, the rental market is phenomenal. One of our investment counselors already just sent me an article two days ago, and this is from my my former town, my old hometown, Orange County, California. Glad to have left by the way, but this article said that Orange County apartment rents are the highest they’ve ever been in history.
Now, isn’t that interesting? California, okay, is a state that is just just plagued with economic problems. The Socialist Republic of California is the poster child for fiscal and economic disaster. Yet at that same time, all of this is happening. Orange County apartment rents are the highest on record, the highest they’ve ever been in history. Why is this happening? Well, so many people have been foreclosed on or damaged their credit in the past few years, that they’re forced to be in the renter pool they can’t buy, even though interest rates are historically low. housing affordability is the highest it’s ever been in history. It is the best time ever to buy. Okay, since it’s been recorded, and I shared with you the details about that on a recent episode, but a lot of people still can’t take advantage of it, those people will rent from you. And that is a huge opportunity for us as investors so they can see again, it is a it is a weakness to know about. But again, it’s not much of a weakness right now at all. The rental market, virtually everywhere in the country, certainly in every market, we are recommending is phenomenal right now, management, well, you could have management problems. And again, this is one of the problems that we try to help you solve. property managers can be difficult, they can be flaky, they can be flighty. Sometimes they don’t do their job, or they don’t do it quickly, or they don’t do it well, certainly a legitimate concern. And we help you manage that. And we also teach you how to self manage your properties. As I’ve talked about on prior episodes. Of course, I never thought I could self manage properties from a distance. Certainly I know that I could self manage properties locally. But until about three, three and a half years ago, never really thought I could do it from a distance. And I am happy to say that I’m doing it very, very successfully with many of my properties. You know, I’ve talked about that first long distance self managed property. That’s the one in San Antonio, Texas that I own. Well, guess what? The tenant has been there for several years now. And I’ve been self managing it. He gave notice two weeks ago that he’s moving. And so I have hired a real estate agent who is a property manager there to just do the lease up of the property, not the management, just to lease up the property for me. And that appears to be so far knock on wood, going very, very well. So I will let you know as that progresses. But again, I’m self managing. And I’m just having a real estate agent lease the property for me conduct the walkthroughs get the keys from the tenant, take pictures of the property for me, and advise me on how much of the security deposit I should refund and so forth. Again, Not going to the property. This is a property I’ve never seen. I’ve been to San Antonio. But that was before I bought this property. So pretty darn good that you can do that the next weakness is natural disasters. Now this one’s kind of interesting. So what if the Katrina hurricane came along, or a tornado came along, or a flood came along, or an earthquake or you had a natural disaster? Well, the first thing is insurance. So you can mitigate a lot of this risk through insurance. And you’ve heard me say, and I’ll admit, this is sort of a snarky comment.
I’ll say it again. But here it is. And it happens to be true in practice, the vast majority of the time, so the best insurance is a high loan balance. Why do I say that? Why do I say the best insurance is a high loan balance? Well, the reason I say it is because if your lender has most of the, quote, unquote, equity in the property, and you have very little of it, if there ever is a natural disaster, here are the things that are likely to happen. Number one, there will be an insurance claim. your lender has a whole team of attorneys that will go and argue and debate and fight with and maybe litigate with your insurance company to make sure your claim is paid, because they want to protect their collateral. This is much better than you having to do this on your own. Certainly case law is riddled with insurance, bad faith, it’s a common problem. Well, your lender can go and take care of that issue for you if there is an insurance claim, and there is insurance, bad faith. So that’s one thing, the next thing that’s likely to happen if it’s a big disaster like Katrina, is that the mortgage companies will actually put a moratorium on mortgage payments. And this happened during the Katrina hurricane. And what happens there is where the Attorney General might actually make a decree, saying mortgage companies, you have to stop asking for money for six months, and give everybody a moratorium to recover from this disaster. Or it might be something that the banks and lenders just simply do out of goodwill, to garner good PR, good public relations. And that has happened in the past. The next thing that happens, it’s common practice. Although I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m not making a moral commentary on it, I’m just saying it happens. And that is that people just walk away in a big disaster, when they have very little skin in the game, and very little equity, they just will walk away and say, Hey, lender, take the house back, it’s been destroyed, and I’m not going to make the payments anymore. And that is a rather common practice for sure. But the people with equity in their property that don’t have that high loan balance, quote, insurance on quote, it’s not really insurance in the traditional sense, of course, they’re stuck the moratorium on mortgage payments, doesn’t do them any good. They can’t walk away and make it the lenders problem. And if they have an insurance claim, they’ve got to go fight with the insurance company themselves.
Now, not all insurance companies will deny claims, of course, it’s usually not a a straight denial. That’s the problem. It’s a partial denial, where they’ll say, you know, we think the insurance claim is $100,000. And you think it’s $150,000. And so that there, that’s the debate that occurs. So those are some of the weaknesses, opportunities. What are the opportunities? Well, one of my favorite is my trademark term. And that is inflation induced debt destruction. Inflation induced debt destruction. Say that three times fast. Okay, it’s a mouthful, I know. But it is a beautiful, beautiful thing. And of course, I’ve talked on prior episodes, about how inflation destroys debt. For us. This is a wonderful, wonderful thing. I call it the great inflation payoff. That’s another way I call it I mean, think about it. If you go and you borrow $1 million to buy one property, or several properties, hope you’re gonna buy several with $1 million dollars and diversify geographically and say you get a $1 million loan. And that loan is an interest only loan or those loans if there are several of them adding up to a million dollars and say it’s interest only for 10 years as an example, and say the inflation rate over the course of that 10 years is much lower than it really is. But we’ll go with somewhere in the ballpark of the official, quote, unquote, statistics. And the official numbers might say that that inflation rate average is around 4%. Well, we all know, in reality, it’s much higher, but let’s just go with the official numbers. So and I can’t remember these numbers offhand, by the way, but I think in real dollars at the end of 10 years, with 4% inflation you’re going to owe somewhere around 606 $1,000 in real dollars, but think about it. Today, when you borrow that money, and you sign those loan documents and you get your first mortgage statement in the mail, it says you owe $1 million. And remember, the loan is interest only. So in 10 years, in the year 2022, the statement on your mortgage will still say you owe $1 million. Just like that $10 bill in your wallet is called $10.
Today, it was also called $10 in 1920. Well, in 1920, that $10 bill would buy you a lot more even though the name hasn’t changed, right? That’s the difference between nominal dollars nominal meaning in name only and real dollars, meaning the value of the money. And so you owe $1 million in 2022. But the question is, what’s it worth? Well, I’d venture to guess that in 2022, that million dollars you owe in 2022, will be worth almost nothing. So inflation will have literally paid your debts off for you. And in the same time, hopefully you’re seeing increases in rent. and the value of the properties, at least in nominal dollars has kept pace, or historically it has slightly outpaced real inflation. So again, that’s part of the ultimate investing equation that I talked about commonly inflation induced destruction. Okay. One of the other things in terms of opportunities. Another one of my trademark terms, regression to replacement cost. Another mouthful, said three times fast regression to replacement cost regression to replacement cost. Okay. So, regression to replacement costs, this opportunity is fading quickly, folks, if you want to get in on this opportunity, you better hurry, because it is going away quickly. How do I know it’s going away, because I see prices increasing. And I see new construction coming back. When new construction comes back. There is no regression to replacement costs, because you’re buying the property at cost or above cost. So the builder can put their profit in there as well.
So regression to replacement costs simply means that you buy below the cost of replacement or below the cost of construction. And when you do this, you don’t need real appreciation to actually occur. All you need is for the raw materials, the ingredients have that property to increase in value to their cost, not increase. Actually, I think that’s the wrong way to say that they’re not increasing in value, they’re just coming back to par. In other words, if you bought all of the lumber, and all of the glass, and all of the steel, and all of the copper wire and all of the petroleum products that go into building that house, and all of the concrete, and all of the labor that goes into building that house and all of the refinement of those materials before they even get to the job site, where they assemble your house and create your packaged commodities investment, or your assembled commodities investment. If you simply let all of those ingredients come back to their cost today, no real appreciation, just regression to replacement costs, you have already made a very, very handsome profit for yourself, next opportunity, inflationary value and rent increases. So this refers to the commodity value of the real estate, the land, and those construction materials simply coming back with inflation, well, you’ll have that. But you’ll probably have it do much better than the rate of inflation. That has happened several times in history, and it is very likely to happen in the future. And then the rent keeps pace or actually, in many cases outperforms inflation. I mean, certainly, in most markets, rent has actually increased beyond the rate of quoted official and even real inflation in just the past year. And that’s because there are so many forces coming into the rental market now that make that possible. And we’ve talked about those before. That’s the bad credit issue creating renters. It’s the Gen Y issue of Generation Y the largest demographic cohort in American history coming right into their prime household formation years and renting properties like crazy. These people are saddled with massive student loan debt in most cases. And they’re not going to be buyers in in mass quantity, or anytime soon, in my opinion because of the student loan debt problem, which really is an opportunity for us as investors.
And then the last one kind of I covered it really but it said a little bit differently. Acquisition price below replacement costs. And we really covered that. What about the threats? That’s the last thing in our SWOT analysis? Well, rent collapse, the rents could collapse. Obviously, that would be bad. I don’t think it requires much explanation, say rents go down. Okay. And you know, by the way, my whole strategy, the one thing that will really, really hurt my investment strategy is this decline in population. That’s the reason we don’t recommend Michigan, okay, we get called all the time with people that want us to recommend Detroit, and we see population decline. So we don’t recommend that. Overall, in the United States, we see massive population increases both through birth rate, and immigration. And these are massive increases in population. And so the rent collapse, very, very unlikely, at least in the markets we recommend, but it is a possible threat. And we have to mention it. How about price deflation? Could we have more deflation? Well, there are only really two major people out there saying deflation, and I’ve had both of them on the show. I’ve had one of them on the show twice. One is Bob Proctor, who’s the guy behind the Elliot wave theory. And bright guy very interesting to talk to you. I had him on the show a long time ago. And the other but well, you know, I got a, I got to give him a little bit of a hard time. My impression is he’s starting to waffle and sort of skirt the line a little bit is my friend Harry dent. And I’m a huge fan of Harry dent, I think he has a lot of great stuff to say, had him on the show twice, want to have him back on the show in the future. But Harry and Bob, they’re in agreement, and I believe they’re friends. And they’re the deflationists out there, the major ones. But I kind of get the sense that Harry dent is he’s sort of changing his tune a little bit about that. So stay tuned on that one, let’s keep following his work which which is great work.
By the way, I I’m a huge fan of economic demography combining those two because I think demographics are so, so simple, and so likely to influence economics and investment returns. The next one is one I’ve really talked about already when I talked about rent collapse, and that is population out migration. So if the population is leaving a place, that is a huge threat. And it’s one that you can do very little about, you know, the old saying, and I was just talking about Harry dent demographics. There’s an old saying demographics are destiny, demographics are destiny, that’s when you really want to remember, okay, if the population is declining in a place, or at least the population that is your target renter or target buyer in the future. And again, this is one of my big problems with California, by the way, is that the population in a net numbers perspective, in California, I believe there have been slight population declines in California. But here’s the problem, the population leaving the state is largely the educated middle class, the population staying there is the elite, ultra rich class, it was the sort of the Hollywood set the Silicon Valley set. And you know, some of the just general business set. I mean, that was very much true. And in my old hometown of Newport Beach, California, but the population coming in is not middle class doesn’t have much money or resources or education. And it’s coming in from immigration. And so I think this is a big problem. I think California, in many ways, is becoming in many areas of banana republic. Now, that doesn’t mean the store that we all think of is the banana republic. Do you know what a Banana Republic is? A lot of people don’t know what that means that term, what it means as it refers to a country. That is usually a dictatorship, where there’s a a small class of elite, wealthy, rich people who run everything. And then there’s the lower classes. Now, this is the reason I don’t recommend investing in Costa Rica, Nicaragua, all of these places that some of my competitors recommend, you know, because I don’t I don’t know about you, but I don’t like banana republics. I don’t think they’re stable. I don’t think they’re safe. And I don’t want to be investing in areas where I’ve got to put barbed wire and 24 hour security guards around my properties. That just is not my idea of a good place to invest. Disagree with me if you will. So out migration is a big, big threat. This is the Michigan problem. This is the California problem.
Now, granted, there Still opportunities and all these places when you refer to a place like California, a state with give or take 38 million people, there are many cities and areas of opportunity, and I’m massively overgeneralizing, I realized that So, but for the purposes of discussion, you have to generalize the next threat, new inventory suppressing rents. So say, for example, a bunch of new single family home inventory is coming online. And say, for example, a lot of these properties will be rental properties. Okay, this is one particular problem that you need to be sensitive to and aware of in new developments. And we are because, remember, several years ago, I was largely in the new home business, you know, all of our clients are buying new properties. Now they’re starting to buy new properties. Again, in fact, I just went on in on one of those myself in one of our markets in Indianapolis, with a client of ours. And this is a threat, you just need to monitor and be aware of, okay, but the good thing is that the vast majority of this new inventory, that could suppress rents, and this happens in new institutional apartment buildings, but we’re largely not competing directly with those anyway. But in the single family home world, it’s something we’re aware of and sensitive to. And it’s just a threat that you need to manage. So again, that generally is the SWOT analysis. And one more thing I want to say in terms of opportunities.
And we’ve discussed this before in prior episodes, that is the subject of Fannie Mae, Fannie Mae, the secondary mortgage market, basically, the almost the only force in the mortgage world today. It is, in my opinion, a corrupt government backed disaster of epic proportions. So the question is, will it continue to exist? Will it be bailed out in the future? Well, I don’t know. But if it goes away, let me tell you what will likely happen. And we’ve talked about this before, I think we will see a huge, a huge upward pressure on rental prices, that’ll be good for us. And we will initially see some pretty significant downward pressure, especially in markets where people are buying above cost of construction, ie California, on prices. Okay? So, again, good and bad, depending how you play it, depending on whether you’re ready for it. If you’re buying in the types of markets, we recommend that the prices we recommend, I think if Fannie Mae went away would be wonderful, wonderful news for for us who are following that plan. But for the people who are investing in more speculative things, where it’s high land value markets, oh boy, they’re going to be in trouble. So anyway, there’s my SWOT analysis, be sure to join us for the Atlanta property tour, get the early bird pricing, go to Jason hartman.com. Click on events and register for that now. It’s only $197 and then your hotel and travel and we’ve got the discounted room block, register before that discounted room block sells out, I’m sure it will very soon. And let’s go to our case study today, where we interview one of our clients, we’ll be back with that in just a moment.
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Jason Hartman 43:51
It’s my pleasure to welcome one of our clients site to the show. And I’ve talked with him a few times over the years myself. And he’s been working with one of our investment counselors and just wanted to kind of have you hear his experience as an investor. What got him interested in investing, how he came to buy his first property outside of his own home state. And you know, what gave him the confidence to do it, and what his experiences have been so sigh welcome. Thank you for sharing your experience with our listeners today. Appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Jason Hartman 44:20
So how long ago did you get the real estate bug if you will, and become interested in investing?
It was probably about 2005. Somewhere in that timeframe, I guess, simply like a lot of people was very disillusioned with my investment returns that I was getting in my 401k and just my regular stock market investing and I didn’t really understand that. There were a lot of other opportunities out there and so forth. And I was very fortunate to become employed with a lending institution. And what that allowed me to do is to have the opportunity to see other business people what they invested in and so forth. And I actually live in Iowa. So the lender that I work with predominantly works with farm real estate and farm businesses. And I happen to notice that the business people that bought farm real estate were the ones that were becoming multimillionaires versus the ones who didn’t they were doing okay, but they weren’t moving ahead nearly as fast is, is what the farmers who bought the real estate were.
Jason Hartman 45:22
So we just distinguish that I’m not sure the listeners totally understood what you just said there. So you’re saying there were farmers? And then there were farmers who also were real estate investors? Is that what you meant?
Well, it’s a little bit different than that, actually, in it farm ground in Iowa, you either rent it or you own it. So as a farm business, you got the option to to rent the ground, or to actually own it and farm it yourself and own that, that asset. And the farmers who did that, or basically have experienced a lot of appreciation. And of course, they’ve they’ve been paying that off as time goes, and you know, several have gotten themselves in a position to where they own the land free and clear, or have a very low amount owed on the ground versus what what the ground can produce for them as far as a return. So they strictly look at it as business, most of them don’t look at it as quote unquote, investment. It’s just something that they do. But foreign real estate acts a lot like single family home properties in the respect that they do appreciate over time, they do provide cash flow, and it builds wealth.
Jason Hartman 46:32
And you said to me, before we started recording today, you were just kind of giving me an update on what you were up to, that the market isn’t very good in terms of farmland quite yet. But it might be
It wouldn’t be good for an investor. Yeah, for an out of state investor, it’s it’s not a good opportunity there if it makes sense for farmers who farm it, but it doesn’t make sense for investment purposes, it doesn’t cash flow, it’s pretty high in value right now. So that that in turn is why I looked at single family homes as far as an investment. And that that’s what kind of prompted My interest is I witnessed that the people were building wealth, I actually owned real estate and I thought, well, farm real estate doesn’t work for me, what kind of real estate could and that prompted me to search the internet, particularly iTunes for maybe just some some opportunities there. And of course, I did a lot of reading. And I guess I stumbled upon your show just doing a iTunes search. That had to be that’s a great, I’m gonna say you probably had about if I had to guess maybe you had about 40 episodes out at that time. And what I did was I went back for right right to the beginning. And I don’t know if you can do that here today or not. But I went right to the beginning and and went ahead and started listening from the get go and got myself caught up and then listened ever since.
Jason Hartman 47:56
Good. Good. Well, hey, thank you for being such a loyal listener. That’s fantastic. So when you were out there looking at, you know, you were reading real estate books, you probably searched around the internet and found different real estate companies and, and so forth. What was it that drew you to to my company? And I was just curious, like, did I have yet Hello. As it goes in Jerry Maguire in the movie?
Yeah. flat out just straightforward education. I mean, just, you really helped change my thinking on investing. I mean, looking at it as a as a prudent investment, looking at cash flow strategies, I guess, you know, the rent to value ratio is one of the first things that I remember, you know, that that I thought was pretty unique. I really hadn’t heard anybody else share that or talk about that.
Jason Hartman 48:46
And that is such a simple little metric that can save people fortunes, it’s it’s a really simple basic metric. But you know, it,
Yeah, it’s a real simple litmus test, you know, if you’re looking at a property or so forth, you can weed out a lot of things just right off the bat, you know, somebody throws something by you verbally, and just says, Well, hey, this is a property you can buy for X amount of dollars, and it should probably rent for this, you know, you can just kind of decide whether you even look at pursuing any further after, you know, by just doing that simple metric right there.
Jason Hartman 49:18
So the rent to value ratio was something you liked, and what else?
Yes. And, you know, all of your 10 commandments, you know, have been right on, you know, and I’d have to probably say, thou shalt maintain control is probably the one of my favorites out of it. They’re, you know, just this rings true all the time.
Jason Hartman 49:37
So you know, you’re, you’re preaching to the choir, that’s number three is my favorite commandment, thou shalt maintain control. Just whenever you put your money with someone else. Good things do not happen. Yeah, you know, so and then yeah, and too many people have learned that lesson the hard way, including yours truly.
Yep, I’m right with you. And it’s just amazing when you have control the options and the freedom that you have there. So that that just really rang true. You introduced me to property tracker, which I use to, you know, evaluate the properties that I have, actually, you’re the first true turnkey investment service that I found out there. And actually the new, you’re the only one that I’m aware of that, that has a turnkey program for several states that, you know, are several different marketplaces. And one of the true area agnostic organizations that I found most everybody else that I’ve heard of or come across have really been hot on one particular area. And that’s the only area they focus.
Jason Hartman 50:40
Yeah. And see, they can’t be impartial when they’re like that, because the traditional real estate industry, of course, is always bound to their certain geography. But a lot of people that, you know, would consider themselves are competitors. They’re there that way, too. They may even say they have other markets, but they really don’t, you know, a lot of them are just, they just sort of put those on the map to make it look like they have a choice, you know, so I I don’t know if you were ever a Saturday Night Live fan. But when I was a kid, I used to like that show. And I remember this one skit, where are they going to place an order in that like a fast food burger joint? And you know, the guy would say, I want a hamburger, no hamburger cheeseburger, Coke, no Coke, Pepsi. You know, that’s, they may look like they have other choices. But I found that a lot of times, they really don’t, they really don’t have any strength or knowledge of certain other marketplaces that they may even advertise, you know, to make it look like they have choices. So, but you know, one market that you’ve been drawn to a bit is Atlanta, Georgia, how and you’ve got property there, how has your experience been?
It’s been extremely good that that was our first out-of-state property, my wife and I started by buying a couple in Iowa in our back door to just get our feet wet, get kind of comfortable with it. And, and through listening to your program, it’s simply, you know, and I could see from the numbers that we returned in Iowa versus what the projections were over in Atlanta, that we really needed to look outside of the state. And so through your program, through visiting with Sarah, that she was the investment counselor that I’ve worked with all the way through and just looked at few different options and was, was awesome at, you know, helping you look through and, you know, kind of helping you walk through your fears and so forth there. So the time came where we finally just said, you know, let’s pull the trigger. And you never know until you actually take action. And so we did that. And we have yet to see the property. I think it was about it’s going to be going on three arts well over two and a half years ago that we purchased that property and and we have yet to see the property. We might sneak out there sometime this summer, but not sure yet.
Jason Hartman 52:53
Right. Right. And you know what, there’s really is there really any urgency to get out there and look at it. It’s nice if you if you do see it, I guess but as long as the money’s coming in, and the expenses are stable, what’s the difference?
It really is a new we’ve just never been to Atlanta, Georgia, except through the airport and thought, well, maybe it’ll be a fun little place to go take a little getaway and see the property and and be able to write off write off a little vacation time there too.
Jason Hartman 53:19
Yeah, and you know, what, what do you say to people sigh that sort of have this in their mind. It’s It’s funny how we are as human beings, our nature is that if we buy a piece of property, we think, oh, gosh, it’s got to be close to our house. And we’ve got to go see it. And we’ve got to touch it and feel it yet, we can put hundreds of 1000s of dollars into these invisible quote assets unquote, like stocks, bonds, mutual funds, money market accounts, bank accounts, and we don’t see that money. We don’t go visit the corporation we own stock in but for some reason, we’re just different with with real estate, I sort of had a hard time overcoming that myself, but once I did, I was sure happy about it.
Yeah, I I feel the same exact way as you just did, I have no issues whatsoever. Investing in any other areas out of state, it just depends, you know, as long as you have a good team, which that that’s what gave me the confidence to do to go ahead and do that there. And I’ve communicated with Sarah on several different occasions after the fact you know, just to get advice and input and so forth there so I feel like you know, there’s there’s a great team environment there. There’s somebody that doesn’t just walk away from you after the sale is done. You’ve got a partner that continues to to walk with you through the whole process. And it’s amazing to me how many people I share my experiences with in Atlanta that just look at me cross-eyed, and
Jason Hartman 54:52
What do they say?
They’re just like, I can’t believe you own a property out of town out of state and you know, the tenants taxes and toilets, you know, type thing all what do you do with this? And well, how do you handle this and you try to walk them through it. And quite honestly, I’ve I share it with anybody that has an interest in hearing a little bit more about it. But I quite honestly have gotten to the point where I figure you know, in statistics seem to play themselves out that there’s a reason there’s a 1%, there’s a reason there’s a 10% of the people that are successful, and the rest of them just aren’t, and there, there’s a certain amount of people that just aren’t going to see the opportunity and just can’t get get past their own little obstacles that they have in front of them. But there, there’s, it seems like about 10% of the people that you talk to at times are like, wow, you know, tell me a little bit more about that, you know, how did you get around this? Or, you know, how do you how do you deal with this situation, and they take it in, they soak it in, and you can tell they’re processing it, and trying to maybe see how that would fit them. And those are the people that, you know, are enjoyable to talk to, and share that experience. And, and it really doesn’t bother me at all, because all I know is that, you know, I’m building passive income, and actually prior to joining your network, and I’d say actually, prior to getting into the real estate, you know, I was about 40 years old at that time, and I was really starting to get down because I was looking head doing some projections with my stock investments. And it was coming pretty clear that, you know, I wasn’t going to be able to even retire at 60 years old. I mean, it was going to be well past that it just wasn’t going to take me there. And let alone sustain me. So when we started out with the, I guess this step back, your program was one of the few programs where you said you know what, you can retire with this, this, what by being a real estate investor, or you can really enhance your life and but but you know, it’s it’s it’s purely passive income that can come in for the rest of your life. And that was pretty exciting to, to see that. So when we started, we started off with some small goals of I think the first property that we bought is we said, well, maybe that can pay for our annual vacation. So we hit that milestone. And the next milestone was, well, maybe we can hit the point where it it compensates for my wife’s income because she works part time. And we hit that goal. So the next goal I’m working on is getting up to work and replace half of my income. And yes, I get that goal, I’m going to go to 100% of my income and and then if anything ever happens with my appointment down the road, or I just get tired and decide I don’t want to deal with the the frustrations and challenges that it brings, it gives me confidence to be able to have the option to walk away from it. Or if they decide they don’t need me anymore. It gives me that peace of mind of knowing that I don’t have to race out and find something as fast as I can to pay the bills.
Jason Hartman 57:58
Yeah, you know, it’s a great feeling that security have properly purchased and acquired investment property or income property. Because the nice thing is sigh, like we’ve talked about, it’s just always working for you, isn’t it, it’s always sort of in the background working for you. It’s so stable. It’s the most historically proven asset class, unlike a business, which is so volatile, if you own your own business, you know, it changes every day, every minute, every half hour, it’s just a very volatile thing. But the income property is just stable, and it just keeps chugging away. It’s like a big ship. And that ship doesn’t go fast. But it just keeps moving consistently. And before you know it, you’re at the port of call where you want it to be. And then you can go to the next one. And that’s the great thing. You know, the other great thing about income property is you start to put all of these factors that really hurt most people, you put all of those factors in your favor. So for example, time passing, that hurts people just because who’s crazy about getting older, right? But But what happens over time is you’d start to spend money, and you start to deplete your nest egg and inflation occurs over time. And so all of those things are damaging to most people, but within GM property, they’re beneficial to you. Inflation helps you It destroys the value of your debt, it increases the price of your property for 27 and a half years you’ve got fantastic tax benefits through depreciation. If you ever decide you want to sell the properties, you can exchange them and defer the tax indefinitely. I mean, nothing else works like this, does it?
Not, not at all. And I I’m glad you shared shared all those things, because I was gonna say what i was i was talking about was one element and that was cash flow of hitting my goals. That wasn’t the tax benefits that I’ve received since purchasing the property. I mean, I’d get close to 10,000 more dollars back on my tax return than then I was prior to doing investment income or investment properties, so inflation, like you say, I talked to people all the time that are just scared to death that inflation is going to come. And it’s not like I’m wanting it to come, but I shouldn’t worry about it. Because I know what that’s going to do to, to my investment portfolio. And on top of that, I guess I didn’t share this with you either. But prior to me, starting with your guyses network, my goal was to be out of debt completely. And I was awfully close to it, I was down to about 20, maybe a little over $20,000 is all we owed on our house, and everything else was paid off, and I was pumped up about it. And then I sat down, and I figured out that Okay, once I get this house paid off, I’m going to have about $600 of principal and interest that I won’t be making payments on anymore, because you continue to still make your insurance payments, you can still make your your tax payments and so forth there. So I took $600 times 12. And I thought, and that’s not going to get me to the promised land. So now I’m in more debt than I’ve ever been in my life.
Jason Hartman 1:01:15
Now, now, for a new listener. Okay, be careful with that one. Because as a new listener may be hearing this for the first time and say, what kind of quack is this? Jason? No, that’s actually part of the plan. Of course, consumer debt is bad. And you know, I don’t recommend that. But long term fixed rate debt against what I call packaged commodities. In other words, pieces of real estate, pieces of income property, that are made of the commodities that the whole world needs, you can invest in commodities, and leverage them at incredibly low fixed rates, that you don’t even pay your own debt, your tenant pays your debt for you. So what would be the big objection to debt? We sigh You and I, we outsource our debt to other people? I mean, I don’t like debts I have to pay. But when other people pay him, I think that’s a wonderful and and then inflation comes along and destroys the value of the debt. Because as the dollar goes down in value, so does the the debt, the debt goes down in value at the same exact time. And that was just a beautiful, beautiful thing, isn’t it?
And I’m glad you clarified that because yes, it is debt on the right things. I don’t have any vehicle debt at this time. I don’t have any credit card debt, besides, we just buy some things turn up some points. So we can get some rewards, and we pay it off every single month. So there is no short term debt, no consumer debt to speak of or anything like that, that we have. It’s all long term debt fix to real estate, and every single one of them are on 30 year fixed rate. Interest rate. Right now, those rates are beautiful.
Jason Hartman 1:02:53
They are incredible. And by the way, you know, we should mention that you’re in the business of financing farmland. That’s what you do for a living you’re, you’re a finance guy. So it’s interesting that they you know, that should be noted. But aside, you’re so right. I mean, think of it, if you bought one of those properties back and just for round numbers 2010, you won’t make the last payment on that mortgage, or your I should say your tenant won’t make the last payment on that mortgage, because you don’t make any payments the tenant exactly until 2040. Wow, 2040. Can you imagine how much the world is going to change by 2040? With the amount of debt we’re in with what the government is doing to us just mortgaging our future away? But yeah, with our plan that actually works for you. It’s a beautiful thing, because as the government spends, that is inflationary. And boy, that inflation is just gonna pay off our debt for us. It’s a it’s just an incredible thing, huh?
Yeah. And I, I’ve come to the conclusion that let’s fast forward 15 years, and let’s say that interest rates are 10 12% I, who knows whatever they are, even if I’ve got enough cash sitting in the bank that I can pay those mortgages off? I sure don’t plan on it. At this point in time, I’ll just take the cash and continue to purchase real estate. Yeah, no, not great. It’s there’s no reason to pay it off early when you got interest rates locked in, in the fours?
Jason Hartman 1:04:18
Yeah, I mean, but with with the real inflation rate now, you know, in my opinion, hovering between nine and 10%. Of course, those aren’t the official statistics the government wants us to believe but we all know it’s true in our own lives, that it’s much higher, you’re getting paid to borrow right away, even if you even if the property sat vacant for 30 years, as long as inflation is higher than the interest rate, then you’re getting paid to borrow. But it’s even better when you rent it out to somebody else. Really incredible opportunity. You know, since you’re in the finance business, I’d like to ask you, you know, what is your outlook? What do you think the real rate of inflation is? And, and what do you think inflation will ultimately become down the road a few years?
Oh, great question. I hear you, I hear you ask all the experts there. So I just want to stay out here. I’m nowhere close to being an expert.
Jason Hartman 1:05:07
Well, yeah, you’re talking about the guests on the shows, but experts are wrong to a lot of times. So I don’t know if I’m putting you on the spot with that. But, you know, I just thought I thought it’d be interesting to get your outlook. I mean, what’s your perspective on it?
There’s no doubt in my mind that I laugh every time I see the CPI index talk about three to 4% inflation, you know, that’s just, that’s crazy. I I agree with you, it’s, it’s closer to that, somewhere in that 10 to 12% area could even be 15%. Just depends on on where you’re at. But there’s no doubt things are continuing to cost more. And it’s it’s taking more money out of the average people’s pockets. But I think the scary thing is the average person out there doesn’t even have a clue what inflation is don’t do not understand. And I think that’s where just a tremendous amount of people are being robbed out there who don’t, who don’t know how to manage it, and use it to their benefit. On your other question there. You know, I have no ideas, no thoughts on where, you know, there’s days where I can certainly subscribe to hyperinflation and see where it could just go crazy. I can’t remember, it seems like you had a guest on just fairly recently here who was talking about even like 25% or so 25 to 50%. And, you know, I could certainly see something like that occurring, I guess that’s probably where I would I would shake down a little bit more on is he is maybe coming into that frame of mind, you know, into that that territory, which again, I think you guys use the example, on that particular episode of just take a gallon of milk and figure, you know, a 25% to 50% inflation rate on that. It just, it’s astronomical as to how fast prices could go up just even at that.
Jason Hartman 1:07:02
Yeah, it’s, it’s really amazing. It really is. So we all understand the assets we have. And I think we put ourselves in a great position. And even if it doesn’t get really bad in terms of inflation, we’re still going to profit because the properties make sense the day you buy them, they’ve got cash flow. And it’s the same business plan, really, people have been doing, certainly for the past 40 some odd years, but even for 1000s of years before that to to a slightly different extent. So. So that’s great. Yeah. Well, hey, it’s been great to have you on sharing your experiences today, so much, appreciate it. And thank you for being a client and a listener. And just keep it up out there. And, and we’re here to help you with whatever you need. So thank you very much.
Well, thanks for everything you provided you just just been a steady stream of education and and you know, every single week, I’m I’m always excited when a new podcast comes out, and I get the chance to listen to you always learn something.
Jason Hartman 1:07:59
Well, good. We’ll keep them coming for you. Thanks again.
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This show is produced by the Hartman media company All rights reserved for distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www dot Hartman media.com or email media at Hartman media.com. Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax legal real estate or business professional for individualized advice. opinions of guests are their own. And the host is acting on behalf of Platinum properties, investor network, Inc. exclusively.